Revised Kitchen Plans + Butler’s Pantry Vibes

I feel like I think about my kitchen an inordinate amount. I think about it when I go to sleep almost every night. I think about it when I wake up in the morning. I think about it throughout the day. I blogged about it less than a month ago yet here I am again. Going on and on.

I’m hoping this means that I’m thorough and not just too stupid to figure stuff out faster. This is the first kitchen I’ve ever truly renovated for myself, and I’m super excited. But I also really don’t want to screw it up and hate myself forever. I want to get it right. And I also want it to be very beautiful. And I also want this to be the kitchen that I have, enjoy, use, and live with for a gooooooood long time, because I have absolutely zero plans to sell and move and I never want to renovate it again.

Also! It’s for me! How much fun! I end up designing for other people much more than for myself. I’m used to having the constraints of what a client will go for, or certain expenses that affect how the budget is allocated…it’s working your ideas into someone else’s priorities, basically, and at the end it’s never really all the things you want even if you’re satisfied with the result. Ya know? But here…I’m the client. I’m the future homeowner. I’m the wind beneath my own wings. Too far? Point is, I HAVE TO PLEASE NOBODY EXCEPT MY OWN DAMN SELF. How thrilling. How paralyzing.

To be clear, this is not to say that I don’t care what you think. You guys had a lot of thinks to think on the last kitchen post, and I read every single think and and found them very helpful! You people are smart and kind and important and the best on the whole Internet? We have fun here? We’re nice to each other? We disagree about fridge placement yet we still find common ground over wood stoves? I’m so grateful. Never change, you.

By the way, just to quickly dispel an assumption that came up in a lot of comments: I DO actually cook! I love cooking! I’m not some amazing chef, but this kitchen is by no means decorative. It will be used and abused.

So this was the plan I presented a couple weeks ago:

I still like it but it’s got some problems that some of you picked up on.

  1. The island is too big, unnecessary, I don’t know. It’s shown at 6’x3′, giving a 3′ path on either side. I DO love the idea of having a big work surface, but with the wood stove 3′ isn’t going to be enough to maneuver comfortably without stepping onto the hearth stone (which will get annoying and make the room feel cramped) and/or burning my ass. It needs to be scaled back.
  2. The cabinet return from the corner to the chimney is dumb. Chimney will look better without it, and I do hate corner cabinets.
  3. The pantry mudroom build-out is a mess in these drawings. I should have been more clear about that part of the plans being MUCH more preliminary than the main kitchen part. Everyone freaked out and I was like WAIT CALM DOWN. Oopsie!
  4. The door from the kitchen to the dining room can and should swing the other way, out into the dining room. That’s how it was originally and I think it’s worth restoring.
  5. Everyone and their mother thinks the sink/stove placement is wrong. This isn’t necessarily a problem, just a notation.
  6. There IS a dishwasher to the right of the sink, standard size, completely necessary to my life. I lived without a dishwasher for almost a decade, and in that time I learned that I’m a slob who would rather do almost anything than my own dishes.
  7. Lighting: Aside from the sconces, there will also be a central pendant ceiling light chandelier number. I know recessed lights in the ceiling would be functionally good and there are some pretty inconspicuous options out there, but it’s not happening. Not on my watch, not in my ceilings.

DON’T GET TOO EXCITED. But for the sake of making my indecision that much greater and the voices of disagreement that much stronger, I did some stuff:

  1. Bye bye, island. Hello old table. I do think it helps greatly with the too-cluttered issue, particularly around the wood stove (and in turn making the stove more of a feature in the room) and I think could be really pretty and nice. I’m about it.
  2. Cabinet return to the right of the chimney, eliminated!
  3. I made the sink/stove change. I have so many feelings about it:

When I say I think about my kitchen, I guess I really mean that I visualize my kitchen. Being in it, cooking a meal, laughing with friends…the inside of my brain is an Applebee’s commercial. And I always picture the stove where I had put it before. It just feels more right in my head? So that’s been Option A. And this has been Option B. And I go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. Both are equally possible, technically.

I actually think Option B is prettier, for what it’s worth. I’d prefer to look at that kitchen.

I also think Option B has some issues. And that I’d prefer to work in Option A.

  1. I installed those windows for three-ish reasons: trying to balance out that exterior elevation, bringing natural light into the kitchen, and ventilation. The view out that window was not part of it. Telephone pole, street, parking pad, falling down fence, trash receptacles, yellow aluminum (and, out of view, green asbestos)…it’s far from bucolic. I actually would prefer to NOT have the sink under the window in this instance, even though I know that’s a really normal thing that’s perceived as almost a requirement and unanimously understood to be more pleasant than facing a wall. This is a not a new concept to me, but I just think it doesn’t suit every single space! That being said, I don’t wash dishes by hand unless it’s completely unavoidable. It’s not like I’m ever really standing at the sink for a long time and looking at anything other than what I’m doing with my hands. I guess what I’m saying is that the sink/window thing is neither particularly appealing nor entirely unappealing.
  2. The sink feels far from the stove. Like too far. But moving either one closer to the other feels very weird and does not satisfy my urge for symmetry or having things line up with other things. I know I could do a pot-filler to resolve some of the issue there, but it still seems a little…off to me.
  3. Those windows sit pretty low (I wanted them as big as I could while matching the header height of adjacent windows at the top and being above counter height at the bottom), so I feel like I’d be cleaning water spots and stuff off the window panes CONSTANTLY. I also kind of don’t want to see my sink faucet from outside the house? Also if there are window boxes on these windows outside, will reaching over the sink and around the faucet to access them (assuming herbs are growing, which may be a pipe dream anyway) feel good?
  4. If there’s one modern kitchen design thing that I totally do care about and I think will enrich my life, it’s prep space on either side of the stove. In Option A, there’s such an EXPANSE! And in Option B, it’s two feet on either side. It’s enough—I know it’s enough—but it could be MORE and I really think I want more. ESPECIALLY if I’m losing the more spacious island.
  5. A range hood feels more necessary in Option B because you lose having two windows right on either side of the cooktop. Necessary might be a strong word. Advisable. The being said, if I were going to add a range hood down the line, I’d prefer to do it on the wall in Option B than right between the windows in Option A. SEE HOW HARD THIS IS?

By the way, here’s the deal with the range hood. I have to confirm with the building department, but I actually don’t think it is required by code, which is something a lot of commenters brought up, because natural ventilation is provided (amply!) by the windows. I understand the benefits of range hoods. I’ve had them in the past. I don’t feel like I need one, but what I WILL do is rough-in the electric to add one and leave it dead in the wall, just in case. That way it’s really easy to do down the line. I’m just not ready to plan on it because lots of people have (mostly valid) feelings that I should. I’m too stubborn.

SORRY. There are also other venting options that I’m looking into. I’ll keep you in the loop!

SO ANYWAY, I think I’m still in the Option A camp for the stove/sink placement, but with the changes to the cabinet layout and modified island/table included here. I should have done that in SketchUp but seriously, it takes me so long so let’s just imagine.

You don’t seem convinced.

On the other side of the room is where the magic happens. Here’s where we were…

Here’s what I’m thinkingggggg….

SO, I lost the hutch (that grey mass). Which is sort of disappointing but OK. It’s a really large piece that I think would be great in a kitchen, but maybe just not this kitchen. ALSO I think there’s another wall for it in the dining room that will work better than where it is now. I love that piece so I just want to do right by it.

What I gain is…

    1. More shelf. This suits my collection of old and semi-useless but beautiful bowls and pottery greatly.
    2. It’s not in the drawing, but I think I’d like to do some simple shaker-y pegs along the apron beneath the shelf, which can hold aprons and tea towels and…aprons…and…DON’T WORRY ABOUT IT. I like how that wall is more flexible now.
    3. A more central and sizable entrance to the mudroom/pantry space. Allow me to explain:

I’ll give you a moment to pin.

Ready now? Try to keep up.

This is an old picture of the old kitchen and the entrance to the now-demolished solarium addition. For reference, that doorway is about where the stove is in Option A. Obviously all this has now changed but you’re insane or just very fresh to my blog if you think I didn’t salvage that little transom and the surrounding trim work.

do want the pantry to feel like a natural extension of the kitchen, but totally opening up that wall is not an option I’m willing to entertain. It doesn’t fit with the house and structurally it’d be tricky. But a larger cased opening with a transom above that matches the header heigh of the windows…that sounds nice, right? This way the entrance would be 44″ wide, so wider than a standard doorway but nothing too crazy and out of place.

The doorway also moves over to the left about three feet, which means there’s a much bigger corner to play with by the wood stove/radiator. Partially, this is in anticipation of storing firewood, but I also think you could sneak a nice chair in into that corner, or a dog bed, or whatever, and it would make the room feel more…rounded?

Here’s the pantry “plan” from a couple of weeks ago:

Here’s what I’m thinking now:

And then what do you get? Butler’s pantry vibes. Ohhh yeah they feel so good.

I moved the exterior door again. I like this better for a number of reasons, inside and outside the house. Groovy. I feel at peace.

We gain a window! This will add some balance to the exterior as well because the powder room will get the same window. Smaller than the kitchen windows but same proportions.

Also, more pantry! More cabinet space! More counter space! The room is very narrow (5’7″) so the base cabinets here are really uppers, just installed as base cabinets. Still, that’s 8 feet of (shallow, albeit) countertop and cabinet space! I’ll take it!

Countertop next to the fridge. This is a big thing people brought up, and I think this plan accomplishes it. It’s all RIGHT THERE. You could wrap the counter but I still want that small closet. I really do need a place to store a vacuum cleaner, a mop bucket, stuff like that, and there’s not really anywhere else in the house that makes more sense than in here.

NOW, I KNOW. I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW. I could rotate the fridge 90 degrees, cut a fridge-size hole in the kitchen wall, and recess the fridge into it so it faces the kitchen. Many commenters suggested this. My boyfriend suggested this! I know the option exists.

I’m not going to do it. That feels distinctly like a better option for newer construction, maybe? But I can’t picture it looking OK here. I really can’t. The house is too old and the vibe of this kitchen is too old and it’s just so not right. It also seems like the most minor functional difference. We’re literally talking about a few extra steps. I can deal with a few extra steps to build a kitchen that I love with a pleasantly tucked-away fridge. Sorry folks. Fridge niche is not for me.

This is also one of those me being the client things. It’d be so hard to find a client who could be convinced of this plan and I think that’s part of what I like about it? Because normally it would be an idea that would start and end with “if I could do anything I wanted…” but in this case…I CAN DO ANYTHING I WANT! Ya know, within reason. This is very exciting to me and I want to take full advantage by making as many unpopular decisions as I want.

Shall we address the elephant in the room? OK YOU GOT ME. I have to confirm that it’s as easy plumbing-wise as I think it is, but I’m enamored with the idea of adding a teeny tiny bar sink in the pantry. Three semi-compelling reasons:

  1. Fancy. My god, how fucking fancy. Two sinks. It’s like I’m the Queen of England!
  2. Coffee station! How nice would it be to keep small appliances like the coffee machine a bit more out of sight and in here, not cluttering up the kitchen countertops? I’m never gonna be the type to brew my coffee in anything more attractive than a regular drip coffeemaker every morning, this much I know. And with a sink right there, it would all be so easy and convenient.
  3. Ice cube trays. I hate filling them but it’s a part of life since I’m not planning to replace my fridge. Too much money, no real reason. I’d rather not walk to and from the main sink to do this because I always spill.

ALSO CAN YOU ALL RELAX BECAUSE THIS SINK IS UNDER A WINDOW? I DID IT FOR YOU. Kinda. Not really.

But THIS window looks out on the backyard, and that’s a very different situation than the other window.

Nobody in my life seems to think tiny bar sink is remotely necessary, but I’m obsessed with it? So, until further notice, consider it the plan.

So that’s kinda where I’m at now! I’m feeling really good about it, and it’s making me so excited to get going.

Improvement? Worse than before? TINY BAR SINK?

I love tiny bar sink.


435 Comments

  1. I like the idea of a separate coffee station with attendant sink. Necessary? Nothing past a hot plate and microwave (or really an open pit to burn your wood in) is NECESSARY…you do you, boo. I also agree that recessing the fridge in this space would look weird as hell. Not remotely period appropriate.

    • And yet, some people don’t have microwaves! I don’t endorse it, just saying. ;)

      • I actually don’t like them either, but I eat a lot of Amy’s products because I’m a lazy cook, so…compromise.

  2. Daniel….first of all I think I was the one who suggested the woodstove so I’m going to take credit for that ….and do what YOU want with the sink/window scenerio, it’s your kitchen.
    LOVE the butlers pantry….so jealous and of course another sink…duh. so glam.
    This is going to be amazing and I’m with you on the recessed ceiling lights…it’s enough already.
    and when are we going to see this boyfriend?…(oops did I type that out loud?)

    • You may have been! You can have the credit! :)

      Don’t count on it any time soon! But maybe someday. I like the mystery.

      • Keep hiding the boyfriend and we can all write fanfiction in which he’s a dashingly handsome viscount of some sort who wants to rescue a hundred dogs with you and buy an adjacent property so that you never fight over things like whether a tiny bar sink is necessary. (IT IS.)

      • It’s JUST LIKE THAT! :)

        (But we do have four dogs between us, and he did buy property nearby, so it actually…is kind of like that. Haha)

  3. Improvement. Before, the fridge being in a separate room looked like a workaround. Not that you’re designing your kitchen for resale, but I thought it would be a turn off for most people. A whole butler’s pantry makes it intentional, and, as you say, fancy!

  4. Daniel, you are always endlessly entertaining, not to mention talented. If you want a bar sink, go for it. Ditto with not making a niche for the fridge. I love your respect for that dear old house.
    Diane

  5. If you don’t want a range hood, why not consider a downdraft range? They have built-in vents, so you can still ventilate quickly and easily without opening a window or needing a range hood. There are quite a few options out there, and they look just like a standard range.

    • I’m considering it! I don’t have any experience personally with one, but several people who do noted on the last post that the downdraft tends to pull the flame, meaning it’s hard to control your temperature or maintain a flame on lower heat. Which would be MEGA irritating, I think. I also haven’t confirmed this, but I think they’re just out of my price range. I’m more or less comfortable with going up to about 3K for a range, but 5-10K just isn’t gonna happen.

  6. LOVE the tiny bar sink! So many options!! Coffee station or a help yourself drink/bar section for parties. It is so flexible once it’s in. Who could be against it? Only those that are green with envy. Does a hammered sink jive for you in there? Cause that’s what I’m picturing with an old fashioned faucet.

    Removing the hutch makes me nod in agreement. Sad to see it go, but so much more breathing room now.

    But yeah, I still want you to turn the fridge around. Especially with door swing changed and hutch gone. Just think it’s more functional. But you know, clients can be stubborn about certain things (like people who want carpet in bathrooms! Gah!). So I’ll drop it. It won’t take much to change it later, so it’s not worth fighting over now. ;)

    I miss the fatty island. I want more island for you but agree about the hearth being annoying. Any compromise in there? I picture you surrounded by a HUGE island full of people.

    Put your sink and stove where you want it. I prefer it your way. But I kind of pictured it with a big arse historic looking vent or something cool above it.

    So smart to built a small closet for icky cleaning supplies!! Great idea. Love the buttler’s pantry!!

    • RIGHT? BIG PIMPIN with my little sink. I don’t know about the exact sink…it has to be VERY petite so options will be somewhat limited, and I don’t want to spend a fortune, but could be!

      Sorrrrrrryyyyyyyy to disappoint about the fridge thing. Executive decision. I recognize the possible slight functional improvement, but what I keep coming back to is that I don’t see this plan as at all dysfunctional…it’s like it’s solving a problem that doesn’t actually exist, and making the kitchen less attractive and inappropriate to the house in the process. So.

      Island is up in the air! It could end up being a slightly smaller version of the original plan. The table is certainly easier, though, and can so easily be swapped.

      Thank you!

      • I spent many happy weeks at a rambling old beach house with a small kitchen that had pretty much your layout — cabinetry, sink, and appliances on 2 walls, with an old wooden table in the middle. The table was solid wood and was an all-around prep surface, chopping block, place to sit and visit, etc. It worked great.

        (We didn’t have a fireplace in the kitchen but hey we had a big-ass waist-high water heater! does that count?)

      • Round bar sink in the corner of the butlers pantry, with self-apron? There is a company that makes gorgeous ones, in hammered copper, for example. Check out the Fiesta. http://www.nativetrails.net/kitchen/all-kitchen-and-bar-sinks/?limit=30
        It’s a budget breaker, but you have such luck at finding great things at better prices, I bet that you’ll find that whatever you set your mind to making so, will so be made. One way or another, sooner or later. Can’t forget your random Mooi score for Anna.

  7. 1. TINY BAR SINK. MUST. DO. (I love the entire butler’s pantry update- I think it goes nicely with the age of the home)
    2. I love a kitchen sink placed under a window when the view is great, but as you mentioned, there’s nothing bucolic happening outside that bad boy- I think you’ll enjoy it much more to have neither the sink nor the stove directly under a window (your option A), since you’ll get little glimpses of sunlight without the direct view of “oh hey, there’s my neighbor’s trash”

  8. My fridge is also in a large pantry (with a window in it) and it’s the BEST. Ive got counter space in there as well as regular food storage, and I absolutely love having all of that tucked away and out of sight from the main kithcen space. Its not a drag when cooking (make like Rachel Ray and grab everything you need all at once) and it helps make the kitchen more of a “living” space than a utilitarian “kitchen”. I love this latest direction and cant wait to see progress! (also, YES to the bar sink)

    • Love it, Steph! A trend I’m noticing in these comments is that the people having a negative gut reaction to the fridge placement don’t have experience living with such an arrangement (in fairness, neither do I!), but people who do seem to like it. Which is a big relief! I believe pretty strongly that you adapt to whatever set-up you have…my entire Manhattan kitchen was about the size of my butler’s pantry here, and I cooked plenty of good food in there! I’m pretty certain this will not be a problem at all.

      • I have one of those layout, and the truth is, the kitchen seller tried to talk me out of it. It didn’t work and I have a U-shaped kitchen with the inside of the U being a table with one side against the wall (small kitchen), my fridge and my stove at each end of the U, and the sink as the rounded bottom of the U (as a non-native English speaker, I’m wondering if I make any sense ?).

        Anyway. I cook three meals a day (yes, I actually cook breakfast…) for a family of four, so my kitchen is heavily used. The seller said I was making a big mistake. Verdict ? Mistake, what mistake ? I just LOVE my kitchen ! It’s functional and beautiful, as the fridge is not in plain sight !

        I’m not disabled and I can, you know… walk ? Is the difference between 2 and 4 paces to reach the stove really the stuff of dramas ? I also noticed that while I make a lot of trip between the fridge and the prep area, and between the prep area and the sink or the stove, there’s very few trips between the fridge and the stove. Usually, I stop by the counters to add something, change something, tinker with something. Therefore, I don’t care about the table blocking my path and forcing me to go around it. And on left-overs nights, the prep-time is cut down form 30 minutes to 3, so who cares if I have to make four more paces to go around the table ?

        I don’t get the bar sink idea, but if it make sense to you, I urge you to go with it ! Because I wouldn’t know what to do with it doesn’t mean you won’t either ! And it’s going to be cute visually, so who cares if you don’t use it often ?

  9. I absolutely lurv your tiny bar sink and the pantry with the fridge in it. And your idea to keep the coffee maker and other small appliances off of the kitchen counters is a great one.

  10. Love the bar sink! It makes so. much. sense. Its brilliant, inspired, functional, amazing, etc.

    • But do you like it??! :)

      • Love the little bar sink. One suggestion on it though-put a disposal in there unless you plan on composting all your coffee grounds. Dumping them and grinding in the sink is awesome. Also, can picture you at your pantry little sink bringing in things from your garden and wanting to rinse off the dirt, so don’t go tooooo tiny, just tastefully small.

      • Agreed! I want it to be as big as possible but, ya know, it still has to fit.

        I need to do more research on/consult the plumber on the garbage disposal. Ideally, yes absolutely I have one on both sinks (I do compost, but not in the winter), but I’ve always heard that they’re a gamble with old plumbing (like my very old cast iron waste line, for example) and can cause major back-ups. Otherwise, I agree!

      • Just want to agree that you need to be careful with a garbage disposal in an old house. Mine dates to 1896, and our plumber was very much against us putting one in, for the reasons you mentioned, so we did not. Composting is great, but if you can’t in the winter, so be it. Not worth clogged pipes. Your kitchen will be fabulous — wish I could have a butler’s pantry in my old house!

      • Who says you can’t compost in the winter? The pile might not be active but I still dump all my kitchen waste in the bin and come spring ill probably turn it all.

        I thought I was going to put in a disposal but now I don’t see the need. Yes, I have to empty out the strainer with the gross food shit in it after doing the dishes but it’s not really that hard or that gross. And grinding up food that could be composted and sending it to our water treatment plant? What’s the benefit?

      • I live in Paris where we don’t have disposals in the sinks. I’m so used to it now that it seems odd to me when I go home and stick all these foodstuffs down the drain!!! It’s not a big thing to throw things away, it gets to be a habit pretty quickly (and for that reason, an under-sink spot for a garbage pail is probably a good idea, too!).

        I love love love the butler’s pantry and sink. Your fridge is going to be just fine in there.

        And I love your writing! Don’t know if I’ve ever taken the time to say that before. Obviously that’s a big part of why people stick around here so I should say THANK YOU for all the time you put into your blog, from which we derive such enjoyment!

      • Loving the new details for the pantry! But I want to add my cautionary tale about how the stupid people who owned our house before us who did some fast can cheap “upgrades” including a garbage disposal in our one hundred year old two family house – well at the time we where living on the first floor with tentents on the second and one day I started to hear running water behind some walls… well it turns out that the vibration of the garbage disposal broke a bunch of old pipes! It sucked sooo much – maybe it won’t matter because you would be using all pex and I’m not sure if you still have anything old or cast iron once you do the Reno – but even having the bathroom that close I would be nervous after what we had to deal with. Also for what it’s worth I think the stove on the window wall is best – easier to vent outside if you ever want to and you don’t have to wory about the pipes for your main sink freezing being on an outside wall.

      • Sigh, looks like no garbage disposal for me!

        Ryan—I’m just much less inclined to actually carry the food scraps out to the compost bin in the winter because it’s cold and there’s snow on the ground and I’m a wimp! I can probably break that habit, though. I haven’t had a garbage disposal since I was living at home with my parents, but in the intervening decade I really do see the appeal! It just makes clean-up a tiny bit easier and a tiny but less icky. It’s totally stupid but also nice, you know? I think of it the same way I think about pot fillers and ice-makers. I’ll survive without, though. :)

        Kim B.—Thank you! (and yeah, I’m no stranger to living without a garbage disposal! I’d rather have one than not have one, but it’s DEFINITELY not worth a plumbing nightmare!)

        Rachel—Noted!! Yikes! All the plumbing near a disposal would be brand new (Pex and PVC), but I think the clogged pipe issue is enough to scare me off!

      • Garbage disposals are also bad for municipal plumbing too. I highly encourage you to get a cute countertop compost holder so that you don’t have to empty as often, and then definitely use your compost in the winter too. I live in Minnesota and compost year round; everything just freezes in the winter and then breaks down beautifully in the spring due to all the cold. It’s not a problem. We have a beautiful stainless holder big enough to hold 2-3 days of scraps for us, so it’s easy enough to pop outside every once in awhile. Tie it in with taking the dogs out or something so it becomes a habit.

        PS I LOVE the bar sink and think it’s an awesome compromise. I also hope that closet is bigger than the door so you have plenty of room to store stuff.

  11. Brilliant changes! I love the wider door, salvaged transom and re-vamped pantry, which I’ll now be referring to as the scullery because of the fancy sink. As for the sink/stove layout dilemma, I say keep the stove between the windows. You’re right, they’re two far apart in Option B and it looks unbalanced. And amen to ugly drip coffee makers. Ours is ancient and hideous…but it makes coffee. With caffeine in it. I’m not cool enough for Chemex or $500 espresso machines that look good on Pinterest.

    • Ohhhhh, SCULLERY! What a fun word. Stealing it.

      Yeah, I have a basic Cuisinart machine and it’s simple, easy, makes a good cup, and it really isn’t bad looking, but I still want it a bit out of sight. I drink coffee everyday but I’m not at all a picky about it so REALLY GOOD COFFEE is usually wasted on me. I’m trash and I don’t care!

      (I have a chemex and a french press…god I feel like there’s another one too…but those are primarily for that one weekend every fall where I want to feel extra cozy and nice…after I’ve brewed a pot on the cuisinart and don’t mind waiting.)

      • I also agree that the stove looks more balanced in your plan A. Plus, if you ever decided to add a vent hood it could fit between the windows and not look awkward. But with the windows on either side, you probably wouldn’t ever need a vent hood. With all that wall space over the sink wall in plan A, you could also put some awesome art there. Looking at art trumps looking at dumpsters and street parking.

        I LOVE the scullery (and the word)! Another vote for sink in the scullery – if you’re bringing anything dirty in – produce, muddy feet, whatever – it will make clean-up so much easier.

        With where the door from the outside is, you may want some hooks or something along the left wall to hang coats and such. And you could also consider having some kind of shoe storage in the bank of cabinets on the right. (Under the sink? Is that the worst idea ever? Possibly.)

      • Yes, good idea! It is a lot of cabinets so I think I could dedicate one to that kind of purpose. And yes, hooks! Or more pegs!

      • Came down here to tell you about scullerys. Here in a South Africa they are a common design element- with the fridge- the big sink, the dishwasher all tucked into a separate type room. The kitchen areas commonly only have a prep bowl. I guess the thinking is that your domestic help is doing your wash up “behind the scenes”.

        When I was redoing my kitchen I ripped the wall out Between the kitchen and the scullery – my contractors were aghast- like “where are you going to out the dishes when you have dinner parties” and I’m like “um on the counter or in the dishwasher”.. beside the point.. you are making a scullery and that’s awesome.

        Additional notes- having lots of cabinet space to put down groceries in there will be awesome. I don’t mind extra footsteps in the kitchen to the fridge- feels like a luxury after years of small kitchens, love your layout I want you to get started and can we start a gofundme so we can start watching this all go down!?! Literally I want to chip in on this action. Also- another reader commented last time with a link about vent hoods not being that necessary. I agree- you actually have two windows to vent the room if necessary. Skip. it. Concern trolls all concerned and shit.

        This kitchen will be so dope.

      • I’m here to echo the SCULLERY support. Like Ita Darling, I live in South Africa (and American transplant) and every house here has a scullery. They’re the best. In my kitchen (which looks an awful lot like your rendering) we don’t have a sink at all. Gasp! The only sink is in the scullery. And you know what? It totally works. I would suggest you think about the possibility of making the scullery sink a big sink. It’s SO NICE to stash your dirty dishes outside of the main kitchen and not have to look at them all the time. So nice.

        In our scullery we have our sink, microwave, tea kettle, dishwasher, recycling and garbage, and we store things like the blender. It’s a small room, maybe 3 feet wide and 6 feet long, it’s a workhorse. Many people also have a washing machine and fridge in there too.

        The last thing I’ll say is that when I moved I cursed having a kitchen without a sink in the main kitchen area. And then…I totally got used to it. You can get used to anything, including having your fridge in another room. So if putting your fridge there feels right, just do it and it will be right. Also, being good doesn’t have to equal being “perfect”. Your ideas are great, do it!

      • It and Nora—This is fascinating!! I feel like I’m learning about Swedish beds all over again and just like…wait, you do WHAT? (Also, trying to imagine these comments if I decided not to have a sink in my kitchen…I think someone would burn down my blog?)

      • Wow, I had no idea there were so many other South African fans of this blog.

        While our house doesn’t have a separate scullery I agree they are awesome. I got totally hung up on the idea of a prep bowl sink in the island when we redid our kitchen but eventually had to admit to myself that it was totally pointless to have two sinks in one room, no matter how cool it would look.

        Garbage disposals are not really done here (you can get them, I think, I just don’t know anyone that actually did…) When I think of them I just visualise that ubiquitous movie scene where someone is trying to fish a ring or something out of the drainage hole, and the ominous music starts playing, and you just know they’re going to lose a finger. So yeah, life is totally doable without one.

        I really like the new plan too, I think the fridge round the corner makes way more sense when it’s in a butler’s pantry/scullery than just a random “well this didn’t fit anywhere else” kind of situation. I also prefer the stove on the wall with the windows, because, symmetry.

      • If you put a faucet with a pull out hose on the scullery sink, you could easily rinse a muddy dog as well. To that end, will this pantry have a tile floor? If so, you could consider adding a floor drain and it can double as a mud room.

    • Note to self: Find ways to use the word Scullery on a regular basis.

  12. Daniel, you are the king of sinks. Option a is way better, and why would you not put a second one in the pantry when you can?

    Also you’re so right about the fridge looking off if you made it a neich

  13. Ok, so who’s mr fancy pants with the butler sink? Damn girl, I don’t know if Kingston is ready for you! While some readers may be yelling what was Chef thinking?!, I’m totally feeling your client mandates. Since the world is your butler pantry oyster, I’m just going to throw ian idea out there as an option since you’re adding plumbing and the laundry went upstairs (again, beyond fancy)… what about a small shower for the pigs? As a fellow fancy pants renovator, my big splurge in our in-progress [read: never going to be done ever] kitchen/mudroom Reno was to lose the toilet/shower stall (why this was so close to the kitchen, I will never understand). Instead of the outhouse style toilet w/ swinging saloon doors that would bang your knees, we put in a fabulous dog shower and huge w/d. While it may not work for future owners, I am living the dream. After 11 years of lugging laundry down the street and back up 3 flights I now have clean clothes and don’t have to share a tub with my furry monsters. Can’t wait to see your final plan it’s going to be amazing no matter what you decide! Xx

    • It’s a good idea, but I have no idea how you’d squeeze it in! Honestly I bathe my dogs extremely infrequently though (yes I know I won’t have the same dogs forever…DON’T MAKE ME CRY MELISSA), so I don’t think I really need that. We shower together once in a blue moon and it’s fine!

    • OMG, the dog shower area has been a dream of mine for so long!! Although like Daniel I bathe my dogs probably too infrequently, I like to think that I would do it more often if I had a designated facility :)

  14. It’s great to see your process. I think the new pantry plan is excellent! I am always suggesting to clients the coffee bar idea and I’m doing it in my own place right now. Also, I am totally on board with your refrigerator location. Furthermore if you’re having a party in the back yard you can fill the sink with ice and chill your rose. I am a big fan of your original island. I say go for it! Also 6×3 is not that big. Good luck!

    • CHILLED ROSE IN THE BAR SINK I KNOW I KNOW! The fanciest.

      I know, I gotta keep thinking about the island. I love that plan but it’s just too big for the room, even though it’s not even that big. Maybe some kind of hybrid is the answer. :)

      • If you really want to live in The Knick like you said, you’ve got to do a table rather than an island! Remember Dr. Thackery’s office and how you said it was your favorite? :-)

  15. I can’t tell you how much I love the new plan! Love the fridge in that room and love the butler’s pantry. But……I’d have a big old farmhouse sink in the buter’s pantry for big pots and maybe vegies that come in from the garden (that was in the plan, right? lol). I love the sink under the window, I love the stove with no hood, I love the old table and I really love peg racks! I am looking at an old house next week and now have kitchen ideas swirling in my brain.

    • Thanks Jill! I think that’s what the kitchen sink is gonna be for…those pantry lowers are maxed out at about 15″ deep, so there just isn’t room for a honker! I’d do it in a second if there was space, though.

      Good luck with the house hunting!

  16. Yes to Option B! I’m so happy that you’ve got an old table in there rather than the too-big kitchen island. And yes to the butler’s pantry vibes. Much better use of space and butler’s pantries with mini sinks are so fancy and period appropriate. I sort of really want the fridge to open the other way so you can unpack groceries straight from from the counter but I remember you said you your fridge doesn’t need replacing.
    I’m so excited about these new plans.
    Regarding thinking about your kitchen constantly, I get totally obsessed like that with house plans… just consumed (CONSUMED!)… waking up in the middle of the night fretting about lighting placements. It’s stressful but so rewarding.
    Also, I’m so proud of you for saying no to downlights in your house. I had a bajillion removed from our 100-year-old house before we moved in.

    • Oh, if you just mean the swing of the fridge door, my fridge can go both ways! It’s easy to change. This one in the renderings is just from the SketchUp warehouse of pre-made stuff. :)

      I love that you had the can lights removed—that’s amazing and so funny! I have nothing against them, I just think they feel out of place in an old house, even the kitchen. I can totally understand why somebody else would want them, though.

  17. I love the idea of the tiny bar sink. All of your reasons/justifications/excuses are valid. Totally! Not that you need to justify anything.Only a monster could resist a tiny bar sink!
    That view over the “sink” window is DIRE. I’m a big fan of lots of windows and looking through them, but this view is too depressing.
    Dog bed by the woodstove/radiator! Yes, please! And a chair, too, if it would fit. It would be lovely and so warm. And I’d want to see lots of photographs of the dogs enjoying their dog bed.

    • Thank you Bonnie! I’m glad an honest look at the view helps. :)

    • oooh love this idea of a cozy resting nook — either for the cook or his visitor!!

      agreed that the visual of the window view is determinative!

  18. Loving it! I love the idea of the hutch in there but I think the flow and circulation is so much better now without it. Plus, you’ve already got a fireplace and now an old table/island (ALSO LOVE THIS CHANGE!) to bring in the warmth and character so the hutch isn’t feeling as necessary.

    Butler’s pantry is also great and will be perfect for storing the small appliances out of sight but still handy and accessible. I love tiny bar sink too! I say if it’s feasible, go for it!

    I’m always ambivalent about a sink in front of a window and only really desire it when the view is of a nice landscape/backyard. Though it may be nice to have the extra wall space behind the stove? Like having that shelf above for often used spices or utensils? I don’t know! I do agree with you that Option B seems like a more pleasing layout to look at and it might be nice to not have the stove behind the table island? Taping out these options in your kitchen might be helpful to see how you move in the space and what feels comfortable and easy.

    • Also! Speaking of little sinks and stoves/fireplaces in kitchens…I still think about this house often, http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/151-Albany-Ave_Kingston_NY_12401_M31104-79126#photo22 I hope the people that bought it are treating it well and taking care of that little wooden sink and saving the kitchen from the horrible blue paint! That old cast iron stove is just too good.

      • All good points! Although, I think with the amount of counterspace on either side of the stove in Option A, I’m not concerned about wall space for that stuff. I’m pretty minimal that way…it’s just a crock of cooking utensils, salt, and paper. I think I really prefer the stove behind the table/island from a functional standpoint…just being surrounded by big surfaces for chopping, plating, moving pots and pans around…I think I’d regret giving myself less counterspace on each side of the range and the short end of the island/table behind me. Does that makes sense?

        GAH, I never saw the listing for that house but I drive by it almost daily! That interior is incredible. I had no idea. I would have assumed it was a total mess. They’ve definitely been doing a lot of work on it but I don’t know what…god if they trashed that wood/zinc sink, I hope I never hear about it!!

      • Wow — those were quite the paint schemes and wallpaper the previous owners had going on in that house ?!! Good grief! Would love to see what the new owners are doing, what a fabulous house.

  19. yes! do you! tiny bar sink! and am totally into the fridge where it is. i feel like ina would say “fuck ’em” and then you’d cheers your crostinis. life is good, daniel!

  20. I think your new plan – most especially the butler’s pantry, but including leaving ‘fridge in there, and super-especially your little bar sink (and coffee station) is PERFECT. Glad, too, of the table rather than island, which is also more in keeping with your old-house vibe, and more flexible. What’s not to love about cozy suppers with friends in front of a fire? And you are so smart to think of a small, comfortable armchair for yourself in there too. Bravo. All that thinking paid off. Handsomely.

  21. You sold me on ‘tiny bar sink’ – I’m on board!

  22. Love the new table/island swap. Love the wood stove. Gotta weigh in just to muddy the waters. Sink/windo combo wildly overrated. If you’re feeling the workspace better with the sink away from window it will so not be a big prob. When I redid my kitchen (small, off the dining room, Bklyn townhouse), I elminated the window in there because a) I needed every inch of cabinet space and b) we put in massive french doors adjacent to the tiny, yet open kitchen. Worried about it beforehand. Never give it a thought afterward.

    • Sorry, I got a little lost in the woods in the middle of this post maybe…I agree! I really think for me and this kitchen, the first option with the sink facing the wall instead of the window is going to be a better fit. :)

  23. I design kitchens (I am an architectural designer) all the time and have run down my list of wants in my own kitchen when I’m my own client many times. Top of my list – Butler’s Pantry! A place to hang, make drinks, mini wine fridge, store pretty plates, and get out of the way of the people cooking. It’s perfect. I’m all for it and hell yeah you spec that tiny sink!

  24. What if you went with Option B but put the sink between the windows? You don’t want the view anyway. It will look more centered in the room and you can put some cute art or an open shelf or both above. You can put the dishwasher to the left of the sink. It’s not the standard but my previous kitchen was set up with the dishwasher to the left and it was fine!

    I can’t wait to see how it all turns out!

    • It’s not a bad option, but I just don’t like it more than either of the other two options! I’m difficult!! :)

  25. I have the fridge in an adjacent pantry/storage room at my cottage and it’s no problem at all. Good luck and can’t wait to see how it ends up.

  26. Daniel,
    The revised plan looks fantastic! I love the access to the backyard and the small sink and space for coffee (because coffeepots are not cute) and the window with a view. The smaller island will really open up the space when you are entertaining. It’s really coming together! I can’t wait to see the progress! You GO Glen Coco!

  27. I LOVE the tiny bar sink and the coffee maker place and everything about the Butler’s pantry! I want to live in the Butler’s pantry!

    • Something tells me the butler’s pantry will end up being my favorite room in the house? TINY SINK! DECANTING THINGS! WHAT COULD BE BETTER?!

  28. I love it!! (And I still love plan A, too!)
    When we designed our house we were constantly being told “well, that’s not how most people do it…” well no shit – if we wanted what most people want we’d be living in some off-the shelf plan house in Boringsville. This is your house, for the way you live, and you have absolutely FANTASTIC ideas!
    I love it all!
    Thank you for sharing it with the rest of us!

    • LOL… such a good point! Clearly Daniel’s house and entire lifestyle is WAY too awesome for whatever the heck most people do! :)

      • CLEARLY!

        (I love thinking about being a total pain in the ass as a “lifestyle.”

        “Sorry guys, I’m just not sure you understand my lifestyle!”

        I’m laughing alone.)

  29. I gotta tell you. I was pretty attached to your original plan. I thought you hit every single nail on the head. But now I see how wrong I was. The old plan was like when Kevin O’Conner gets to hold a hammer and pretend to build stuff. This new plan is when Tommy Silva steps in, calls Kevin “kiddo”, and then fucking pounds that nail in with one hit. Bravo!

    Also, obviously you know Julia loves her mini sink in her laundry room. She uses it to fill the dog’s bowl. Is that a consideration in here? Because, if so, then you have to have the sink. It’s what any responsible pet owner would do.

    Also, I’m digging the shaker peg rail. You could even hang some ladder back chairs on it to bring down when your friends are too tipsy to stand at the table while they watch you cook. ;)

    • I have to figure out where the dog bowls go to answer that question! I’m more of a fill-a-pitcher-and-bring-it-to-the-dog-bowl kind of guy, myself. CAN I STILL HAVE MY LITTLE SINK?!

      And thank you so much! And I love the chair idea! I love anything that involves chairs. :)

  30. Tiny Bar Sink for the win!….obvi. LOVE hidden fridge, LOVE place to hide coffee situation, LOVE LOVE the transom …..tuck the dumb things away in butler pantry, and bask in the glow of amazing kitchen with lots of counter space. I’m down with option A….seems more balanced somehow. Make.it.happen.Daniel!

  31. Lovely larder. Having a sink close to the back door will also be useful for gardening and entertaining. I’m still with Option A on the sink/stove placement.

  32. Nothing brightens my day more than a new post. I love how the kitchen plan evolved. I was in the Fridge niche camp (having to slalom around the island and hutch to get ingredients would drive me insane) BUT the butler’s pantry? Totally won me over. It feels very appropriate, and actually RESPECTFUL, of the house and its history. And yes, you get yourself a bar sink in there. The amount it will cost is minimal but the utility and convenience are so worth it. Bet you find something perfect at a salvage yard. For sink placement, why not centered between the windows? I don’t want to stand at my sink staring dreamily out a window (I don’t want to be there that long). Also don’t want to put on a very boring show for the neighbors. You’d have plenty of prep space between stove and sink (plus the island/table behind) and enough counter space to the left of the sink to roll out the worlds longest pasta. Plus, when you have friends over, they will all hang out in the kitchen and lean against the counter. This keeps them out of your way!

    • Thanks Ken! That was suggested above…honest answer is that I just don’t think I like it more than either Option A or Option B! But it’s a good suggestion!

  33. I LOVE the butler’s pantry! I really feel like your house would have probably had one at some point. Maybe not a butler, but definitely the pantry to store china and silver and whatnot. I don’t know if I love the fridge in there, but it’s your kitchen so…whatever lifts your skirt up. I can’t wait to see how it all turns out!

  34. I think, if any prep (even just coffee!) is happening in the pantry, the sink is a must! Little spills, something slops in the fridge, filling the coffee maker – all much easier to deal with it you have a little puddle of water to work with.

  35. I *lurve* the idea of a little pantry area for prep, a little sink for a quick hand washing or ice cube tray filling – and I think the clean lines of the kitchen would be marred by a fridge nook. Don’t do it! And as a fellow dish-washing hater (I’d rather eat out than dirty a dish) I think the sink under the window is silly. Put your stove where you wanted it originally! And lastly. I adore the idea of a nice dog bed in the corner near the stove. I’m all about the creature comforts for the creatures in my own life.

  36. Wow! Love the tiny sink. You had me at filling ice cube trays :) We have almost never had a kitchen sink in front of a window and even with a heavy entertaining schedule and two small kids, it’s honestly never bothered us. The one place where we did have a window over the sink, I don’t feel like it was an improvement. We are more get er done and move on than gaze out the window while washing people. Love the pantry and the table. Also agree re broom closet, we have never had one and I think about it every few days (for like the past 10 years). Only thought is that it might look nicer/more balanced to the left of the fridge? It looks a little squished in there. Final thought, after heating a house with a wood stove for several years… Don’t keep your wood inside. The humidity is bad for the house and the bugs and stuff that one out of it is truly horrifying, you could end up with carpenter ants or rodents if you’re lucky (saw some even creepier looking stuff if you’re not). I’d try for a little hut away from the house, because stacking on your porch will attract rodents (warmth + shelter + food). So excited to see how it all comes together. Yay for being your own client :)

    • Ah, those are helpful tips! I’ve never had anything wood-burning in any house I’ve ever lived in, so this is all a bit of a mystery to me! Thank you!

      • You’re going to love it! I miss my wood stoves so much. When you go to buy your wood try to get a reference from someone you trust, the wood needs to cure for a while before it burns well. Here we need to reserve in spring for fall delivery. 1-2 cords should be more than enough if you are burning more for ambiance than for heat. If you plan to keep it going non-stop through the winter, you probably want 8 or so depending on your stove. It’s worth looking for logs cut to the length of your box because the bigger they are, the longer they burn (and the less you have to bring in more wood!).

      • That’s helpful Brooke, thank you! I hope I can make it happen by next winter!

      • You will want a place to put an armload or two of firewood inside though, when the stove is in use – otherwise you’re going to have to scamper outside in the snow every half hour to get a new log. I thought that’s what you were describing here – just a place to dump an armload, in season when the fire is going.

      • Rosie—Yes, that’s more what I meant! A small firewood hoop or one of those sling things or a galvanized tub…definitely not getting entire cords of wood delivered into my kitchen! I guess I figured I’d have the rest of the wood pile in closer proximity to the house, but if pests are a concern then I’ll figure out something else. Luckily my yard has a lot of space!

      • Wood dries well outside for two seasons, but taking it inside for a fortnight reduces the particles a lot. A wood storage inside is recommended, also a box type since the carriers are open and it gets super messy. In old kitchens there used to be a vedlår, with room for 4-5 fires. Nothing better than to chop up splinters when you get home from work.

  37. Where do your everyday dishes go? in the lower cabinets? I would just want to make sure you have room to store like, all your glasses and plates from the dishwasher easily. maybe i just have an excessive amount of different glassware.. but it would seem kind of weird in a lower cabinet..?

    and are those closed cabinets in the butler pantry? i would def want some closed food storage spaces for those uglier pantry items you can’t decant into pretty glass jars and put on the open shelves.

    also, I have a window right above my sink with a basically permanently pulled down opaque-ish white blind because it’s a horrible view. i could do without a window and having two nearby that i could look out of would be extra fine. i spend more time at the stove or at the countertop chopping and would want more window view when i do those things than while at a sink..

    can’t wait to see it all!

    • Thanks Kate! I think the dishes would be in lower cabinets, yes, with maybe some on the open shelves above the sink and where the hutch was going to live. I actually really like dishes in the base cabinets when the base cabs are big drawers! There are great interior organizers to keep everything nice and neat. I’m simple with that stufff, though…one set of dishes, one set of drinking glasses, one set of mugs…there’s actually not a lot to store!

      And yes, the lower cabinets in the pantry would all open with shelves (maybe even some shallow drawers in there too), so there’s TONS of closed food storage! More than I can fill, certainly, but that just means there’s more space for those infrequently used things that maybe don’t need to live in the main kitchen space.

      • In our kitchen we have no upper cabinets or shelves so we have our dishes, glasses and mugs in the base cabinet drawers. I love it! I lined the drawers with cork to prevent stuff from slipping in case anyone opens them too fast. We’ve never any problems with breakage and I’ve got a 10 year old boy and a husband who’s not to careful ;)

        ps love the revisions you’ve made.

  38. I LOVE it. The tiny bar sink is perfect and makes completes the buttler’s pantry with fridge and all. I was in the, turn the fridge and make a niche camp, until, you added the tiny sink. It works so well. Ice, yes. Filling coffee pot, yes. Quick rinse of hands coming in the house, yes. I think that sink will get used far more than you expect. Plus it looks like it has always been there, fridge and all. Also, love the broom closet and removal of countertops in the corner. Super functional.

  39. YES! Tiny bar sink is adorable. Also – I like big sink in Option A NOT under windows. You will occasionally have dirty pots and what not and you don’t want to see them from outside on the days when it’s just too nice to be inside scrubbing and you toss it all in the sink and go garage sailing. And, the hidden fridge is brilliant. Fridges are ugly and they make noise. Fridges everywhere are wishing they had their own rooms.

    • That’s a good point, Andrea! Definitely true about the big pots and not wanting to see them from outside. That’s what I’ll start telling people as justification, haha! :)

  40. Love the butler’s pantry. Fridge makes sense in there. I agree that a recessed fridge would stand out like an anomaly in this kitchen. I didn’t think I’d like the table, but I do. The hutch was nice, but that wall looks better without it. And the view from the other room will too.

    All good changes.

    I don’t have an opinion on the stove/sink swap. Go with your heart on that one. You will be the one living with it. Do what brings you joy.

  41. It is an old house and you should do what feels right to you. I agree with you on the A placement of the range. Maybe I cook more like you and don’t spend as much time at the sink as some people do. I spend more time on either side of my range chopping and mixing and prepping, A just feels better to me too.

    One question, are you having a microwave? If so where? A microwave drawer would be an option with your base cabinets if you plan on having one.

    Think about trying to find a counter height table for the kitchen then it can do double duty as additional counter space and also a place for friends to hang out while you work in the kitchen. Regular table height is too low for working at unless you want your back hurting all the time.

    I work in kitchen design, you have my e-mail if you want to contact me.

    • Thanks Linda! I think the microwave can live in one of the lower cabinets in the pantry space. I’ll just rough-in an outlet down there for it. Out of sight!

      It’s possible I might make the table/island thing so all the sizing could be customized! Personally I don’t mind table-height, though. I actually find counters a little high! But definitely something to consider.

  42. Pantry/mudroom is more pantry than mudroom….where are the shoes, boots, dog leash, hats, gloves, mittens, and coats going? And I say this as someone with two dogs who walks them 2-3 times a day and used half of my mudroom for a pantry…..that is now fixing to change as I move the pantry portion into my kitchen proper. It’s been a full-on annoyance for over 5 years now. I did not get that design right in my home….but my pantry closet is something I absolutely love.

    Like the stove between the windows–very easy to add a range hood in that location if one shows up on the wish list at some point. Practical. Sometimes we get too stuck on looking out the window over the sink. My window looks right into the neighbor’s mudroom. Shutters are awaiting an opening in my budget.

    Teeny, tiny bar sink? I realize the space is narrow but perhaps you can just get a narrow trough sink–great place to fill with ice and beer for the next party–and it can be used to wash fruit/veggies right by the door.

    Still want to know where the mudroom portion is?

    • Yep, it’s definitely more pantry now, with a door. There is a BIT of space on that wall to the left of the door in the aerial view where some hooks could go, which I think will be OK. If I had double the space then this would be a different conversation, but I’ve gotta be selective with priorities…there’s just not room that I can see without losing something that’s more important to me. My existing exterior door is in the kitchen with no transition space whatsoever, and it’s really never been a problem! A few hooks by the door is all I really need.

  43. “Fancy. My god, how fucking fancy. Two sinks. It’s like I’m the Queen of England!”

    Bahahaha this is why I love you and your blog! I love when you get that fancy shit as an adult. Personally I bought my house two years ago and, full disclosure, it could not in any way be described as fancy but I’m still kinda excited that it has a) a double vanity (in a really hideous 90% tiled bathroom, but who cares) b) a hot tub (only holds 3 people and I think it was purchased in 1999, but who cares) and c) a refrigerator that has an ice maker/water dispenser in the door (I realize this is not fancy to most people but I grew up with a normal fridge like you are showing in your pictures, and my parents still have that kind, so to me my fridge is fancy AF). Um, so yeah, I am all about the fanciness of your extra sink!!!

    Honestly this plan looks super amazing. I totally understand your sink/stove dilemma, and although I was definitely one of those “put your sink under the window!!” commenters, I see the pros and cons and could really go either way :) I LOVE your downsizing/replacing of the island, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the expanded doorway and that shelf and peg setup along that wall, and honestly you’re a genius because I hadn’t even noticed that that cabinet return to the right of the woodstove was awkward, but now that you took it out it looks SO much better.

    Ahhhh, so exciting!!!

    • Rachel’s comment made me think that you should definitely planning on running a waterline to the back of that refrigerator because when you do replace it the new one will undoubtedly have an ice maker.

    • Fridge with ice/water dispenser is sooooo fancyyyyyy! When my fridge dies, that’s the upgrade for sure!

      Thank you!!

  44. I <3 tiny bar sink! I know this idea is probably not period-appropriate, (but this is in the less-visible pantry, so…) but it would be so functional to have a tall faucet that can swivel far enough to fill, say a coffeepot (or dog bowl?) that is sitting on the counter next to the sink. Maybe it would be mounted at the corner of the sink? Nothing worse than trying to jam a glass coffeepot down into a tiny sink to get under a low-profile faucet. Just set it on the counter, swing the faucet over there, turn it on, then you are hands-free while it fills. THAT spells luxury for me. Can't wait to see your plan come together!

    Oh, and not like you need my opinion, but I think there would be nothing wrong with your main kitchen sink being centered between the two windows. You'll probably choose a big beautiful faucet anyway which will be a lovely focal point on that wall.

    • Yes, I’m thinking about the best way to execute the sink! Seeing as there’s a big (stainless, in reality) fridge in the pantry, I’m more swayed by modern convenience in there. I know exactly what you mean!

      Hey, I’ll revisit the option! I just think I like the other options better!

  45. This is going to be so nice Daniel! I think the fridge will be great with a counter to throw stuff on. Also I am jealous of your hidey-hole for making coffee. And the little sink. Except I have to admit the first thing I thought of was how my dishwasher line used to freeze every winter because it’s on an exterior wall. Which I’m sure won’t happen to you, but you know, just in case that hadn’t crossed your mind…

    • It’s crossed my mind! I think it will be OK…the wall will be newly insulated and the lines will mostly likely run up through the floor than out from the wall, if that makes sense. Hopefully it’s not an issue!

  46. Love it all. You do you! YOU have to be happy with it, no one else! And your style is impeccable, so the kitchen will be impeccable no matter what. For the butler’s pantry (amazing, I want one) I’m envisioning a vintage wire grocery shopping basket on the little counter next to the fridge/broom closet. That way it’s easy (and charming AF) to transport ingredients ALL THOSE EXTRA STEPS to the kitchen proper.. ;-) Necessary: carrying a French baguette to and from the butler’s pantry each time you use the basket.

  47. I haven’t read through all the comments so my apologies if this has been mentioned. I have a wood cookstove (very large) in my kitchen. I have thought about moving my refrigerator out of the kitchen just because I’ve wondered if it might be working too hard to keep up. To me, that in itself is enough to have a separate place for the fridge, a bit further away from the woodstove. I love the pantry ideas (got one of those too) but I have a separate room for it; not the back entrance. Where will you put dirty boots and wood and the various things that are coming in and going out of your home? Probably you are less messy than my family and this isn’t a concern :)

    • That’s interesting! I guess I never thought about the heat from the stove putting a strain on the fridge, but I guess it makes sense!

      It’s a small concern—I wish there was more space in here for more of a “landing zone” kind of deal, but I think with a few hooks on the wall opposite the teeny sink and that whole wall that the entrance to the pantry is on in the kitchen freed up, it’ll be fine. I think there’s just not enough space in there to accomplish EVERYTHING, but there’s also nowhere else for the exterior door to go unless I eliminate it entirely (not an option) or drastically re-think this plan that I like!

  48. Some good changes here and I’m excited vicariously. I’m with on the you original placement of the sink & stove -Option A. I guess I’m in the minority? It’s functionally really nice to have that shelf behind the sink and to have the stove between 2 windows. Stick with that.

    Love the antique table – the scale is better and it could be sooooo purty. Plus it adds character that is lost by eliminating the beautiful cabinet. But with both of those gone, there’s a loss of storage. Maybe at least you could find a table with a couple of drawers or something. But it does look much nicer.

    The re-working of the pantry is just right and I think you’ll find that having the second sink there is so handy. Great to have the fridge concealed (I hate fridges) and to have counter space nearby. Plus, Butler’s Pantry….. how awesome is that.

    • Thanks Caro! Yes, I’m *slightly* concerned about the lost storage, but if the hutch is replaced with that long shelf, and there are more cabinets in the pantry, I think I might have compensated for it? But I hear ya and would definitely prefer an old table with a couple drawers built into the apron…should be easy-ish to find.

  49. Hi Daniel, Never posted but love your blog. I am a kitchen designer. My policy is to never comment on another design on line. Until now. My two cents is… Put the sink where you want, it is better closer to the range. Love the table in middle of kitchen. Reminds me of eating in my Grandma’s kitchen with all of us squeezed in. Nice for workspace and lunch. I think if you love it, it’s fine but being the function junky that I am, I would consider something like a trough sink as Donna suggested. Those teeny tiny sinks don’t really work for anything, even filling ice trays if they spill at all. Also, since you don’t have upper storage, I would either put some wall cabinets in pantry or another tall, shallow cabinet that is 1/2 of the width to window in pantry. You will be so happy to have a big shallow cabinet to hold what’s not pretty. You have plenty of shelves for pretty. The rest of the wall can be counter and open shelves above. I think. Can’t tell re: dimensions. Love your thought process. Good Luck! Just remembered, put in a huge kitchen and they wouldn’t go for mud room. Now there is dog stuff and shoes by every kitchen door. Maybe leave the space under pantry sink open or something for that stuff.

    • Thanks Julie! Kitchen designer in the house! Thank you for being kind. :)

      Totally not opposed to the trough sink, it just has to fit! And I would like it to be garbage-disposal compatible, if that’s an option for me and my old plumbing.

      I guess I’m not sure I buy that I need upper cabinets with the shelving and all the (upper, mounted as lower) cabinets in the pantry, but I’ll think about it! Leaving some open space under the countertop is a nice idea, definitely worth considering.

      • The garbage disposal will clog due to the age of the house (ask me how I know!)

        Since you are so near to the garden, a pail or small bin of food trash can be left outside at night in winter with no problems and you can add it to your compost pile in the morning. The cold will keep anything sanitised – you just have to open the door and put it on your steps outside the house after you finished your dinner.

  50. There is nothing wrong with spending a lot of time thinking about how you will use a kitchen. And the sink / window rule isn’t really that important. I spend much more time at my prep areas than standing in front of my sink. And I also like to work in the kitchen at night, and windows leave me feeling really exposed. I considered adding blinds to the window that I currently have in the kitchen, but who wants to clean those? Yech.

    I don’t have the finalized layouts of our kitchen posted yet, but I’ve thought through many of these similar issues. The main thing I want is a logical prep space / sequence. So I think having space on either side of the stove is really, really important. I prep everything I’m using first, and then I have all these little bowls next to the oven. Right now I do that on a 15″ wide countertop, which stinks. Not too much longer!!

    I love the idea of the shelf and the pegs. I grew up not too far from Shakertown, KY, and I’ve always thought the buildings there were so lovely. And pegs are so functional! We redid our master bath earlier this year and I was on an obsessive quest for the perfect pegs – I wanted a modern interpretation of the cheaper looking Shaker pegs that you can buy at Home Depot. I found them – oversees naturally, but it was worth the effort and shipping. I think they make the room. Here are the photos if you want to see them.

    http://www.thirdstoryies.com/2016/07/25/lets-call-this-master-bathroom/

    I’m in the process of modeling all of the actual things that we use in the kitchen in our kitchen plan, so when you start feeling weird at night over your own kitchen obsessions, don’t. I’ve got it covered.

  51. “I’ll give you a moment to pin.” Bahahaha. /ded

    Now the other reason I’m here today. Stick to your guns. I once lived and cooked in a London flat with a kitchen smaller than a walk-in closet. Best.damn.kitchen ever – because of all the counter space on BOTH sides of stove. Now I’ve got an American kitchen larger than that entire flat and it’s a cook’s nightmare. The stove is at the very end of the peninsula. One side of the stove has no counter space. None, zero. Unless you consider the two inch gap before the drop to the floor counter space. I don’t.

    I vote all the counter space. Window, smindow…internet popularity, bah….fleeting, ephemeral thing…that counter space will be with you fo-eva.

  52. Everything about this plan is perfection, especially the butler’s pantry. Tiny sink, yes! Hidden away fridge, yes! I’m also in favor of option A after seeing your potential sink view. It’s really nice to have lots of counter space to either side of the range.

  53. A lot of people (I don’t mean the lovelies on here – other less wonderful people) see a kitchen as purely functional – it’s there to get a job done, get people fed and get the washing up done, and the whole design should be guided by that alone. These same people think the living room should be purely comfy, the bedroom purely relaxing etc etc – one goal or feeling per room, if you see what I mean. I’ve down this myself, I admit – and it didn’t make for a good result. I now disagree with those people and my old self – I think every room can be created to be comfy, relaxing – as well as functional – and whatever other adjectives/experiences/themes the resident wants. This way, whichever room we’re in we can feel whole and happy, and the whole thing hangs together. Daniel I suspect you maybe see things similarly – your designs and projects look and feel this way to me. Long rambling way of leading to – doing a kitchen purely based on what’s most functional is a shame, and I like your determination to find a plan that feels good and that you can see yourself in and enjoying. Fridges – the bloody things tend to be too big, too much in the way, and dominating a kitchen – unless they’re swallowed up in wall units, which implies massive wall units all along at least one wall, a big chomper of space – oh and they are rarely quiet, let alone silent. To me, the idea of having the fridge in a next door space, just through an open doorway, is a pure luxury – I’d do it in a heartbeat if I had said extra room. Sinks – I never use my sink for anything except washing organic potatoes once a week, and straining boiled vegetables or rice, and sounds like you don’t use yours either – so putting it under a window seems a waste of good window space. The hob in between the two windows strikes me as genius – the long workspaces either side are brilliant for someone who loves to cook – and guess what, you can look out the window while preparing food! – which I happen to think is a highly creative arrangement, seeing outside is good for freeing up the imagination. Bar sink – absolutely, great idea. Island – I think you’re wise not to put in something permanent, and I suspect those 3′ that the island would have left you would have quickly become intolerable. Also – until you’ve done the works you’re planning you can’t know how the resulting space is going to feel – if it was me, I’d do those works and then live with it for a week or so before deciding what goes in the middle of the space. Thanks for the chance to have opinions about a project I then don’t have to do any work on whatsoever! :-)

    • Love that, Catherine! I never thought about it that way, but yes. Is this THE ABSOLUTE MOST EFFICIENT, FUNCTIONAL PLAN I COULD MUSTER? No. But is it one that I think will be beautiful *and* still functional *and* evoke the kinda feel I want for in here? Yeah, it is!

      “Live with it for a week” OMG you have way too much faith in me!! The blessing and curse of doing this myself and being my own client on my own schedule and budget is that this kitchen can and likely will take a whileeeeee to complete. PLENTY of time to feel things out as elements come together!

  54. I have a tiny kitchen with no windows, but there is a door that goes to our backyard on one end, so at least there is some light! My sink doesn’t face a window, but I have the door looking outside just to my left if I need the light or view – very similar to your Option A sink. It works and I don’t spend any more time at the sink daydreaming out a window – dishes done and out of there! The stove in this tiny kitchen has about a foot of counter on one side and two feet headed to a corner on the other. You know what happens when you have a prep space that small next to a stove? Mess and burning things that aren’t supposed to be on the burners! I’d much rather have that great expanse of Option A next to my stove! Do it!!
    Let’s talk range hood: don’t do it in your kitchen! We have an older home and the previous owners updated the kitchen to be all weird and modern and everything feels wrong. The range hood with the microwave is possibly the worst choice, but it’s what we have. However, my in-laws have a fancy alternative to the ventilation issue. I think it’s called a downdraft venting stove. It’s a little flap on the edge of your stove-top that flips open and when you turn it on, sucks the odors of cooking down instead of up. It works really well and you can’t even tell it’s there!
    I do agree that you may want a bit more of an entry in the pantry, but dude, keep your little sink! I’m just imagining a cute little coffee station and maybe a little water bowl filling station for four-legged friends (or, let’s face it, paw washing!).
    All this to say: I love it! You are thinking a lot about your kitchen and are coming up with awesome ideas. I look forward to your posts and hope to see you in a kitchen you love sooner rather than later!

    • Thank you Robin! There’s some discussion above and more in the last post about the down-venters (and possible downsides?), but it’s not off the table!

  55. AaaHH!! forgot to say … stove hood – waste of time – I don’t know anyone who ever switches them on – and anyway you probably air out the house on a regular basis cos of the dogs and life and fresh air and everything anyway – Ok I’m done …

  56. I like Option A (and irrationally hate range hoods). I think the prep space to either side of stove is way more important than having a sink under a window without a great view. Also – my sink is under a window and it’s a pain in the ass at certain times of day with the sun shining right in my eye (and I don’t want to add a curtain). Not sure which direction your window faces but that could be an issue.

    The butler’s pantry is great!

    Might just be the rendering but will the sconce height make it hard to hang art?

    • It faces south, so that’s a good point! I’ll need a shade of some sort for a little bit of privacy, but there are times of day when the light streams in pretty bright through those windows!

      So the sconce height here is 6′, which means…yes. BUT I can work around them, I think. Art in a kitchen is tricky anyway so I actually think it will help sort of frame things nicely, if that makes sense.

  57. Personally, I think you are going to regret and utter many swear words because your fridge is so far from the action. But I am far enough away that I won’t ever be in your house, so do what you want.
    My grandma had a tiny, tiny house, but she had a pantry, and it was always full of AMAZING stuff. One thing about the pantry: not heated, which was for the greater good of the foodstuffs. Just a little FYI. Also, it had a door on it, so it stayed cold while the kitchen was toasty.
    The smaller island will be fine and you will love it. There is nothing worse than being squeezed in a big kitchen.
    The before photo reminded me of when you first posted it. I thought, what on earth is this sweet boy getting himself into?
    Oh, and, my sink is in front of the window, which is great for laughing at the birds that are always in the yard, but the window is indeed full of splashes.

    • Yikes, you’re really bothered by the fridge! Would it help if I explained that this room is REALLY not very big? It’s about 15 feet maximum from any spot in the kitchen. That’s, what, 7 steps? It’s not like it’s moving to the garage! :)

      • I moved my fridge out of the “work triangle” years ago because I couldn’t stand the congestion of everything being so close together. Best decision ever. With all this hoohah over your fridge being in the butler’s pantry, I just went downstairs and counted how many steps to my fridge from my main work area. Eleven. That’s 22 there and back. And I am happy to make that little trip.

  58. I LOVE the bar sink. And I think you’d use it everyday with your coffee idea but I also think you’ll use it a bunch beyond that. Bravo. I’m with you on stove placement A. Our stove is at a similar angle to picture B and the wind blows out the flame enough that it’s annoying. I also think your kitchen island is going to serve as the “fridge” for the typical kitchen work triangle thing so having it in the other room will be no problem.

  59. More Opinions You [do not] Need:

    I love the pantry. Is your fridge small? Perhaps plan for a little more space for it in case you replace it someday and get something bigger.

    The central table does fit better, unless you plan on standing and working at it. With a couple of chairs around it, I think it’d be lovely. I lived in an RV with no counter space and prepping on a table was hard on my back.

    I’m like you, I hate cleaning but love to cook. I had a kitchen with no window above the sink for four years and it never, ever occurred to me to miss it, even though the last kitchen I was in had one.

    I spent a year designing a kitchen and it came out beautifully. I still miss it.

    • No, my fridge is pretty big! Probably bigger than the one in these renderings…I just dragged that off the SketchUp options. But noted!

  60. yesSSss … the LITTLE SINK that DANIEL BUILT in the scullery … woah … coming in and being able to clean up … a nice little silver compost bucket with a top for coffee grounds to toss out and fertilize the garden with (eliminates need for garburator) … cute tray on the little sink counter to pile fridge things onto (quick little veggie wash in the LITTLE SINK) before bringing everything to a smaller version of an (eventual) island that all your friends (and boyfriend) can stand around … can it go sideways? … all I could think when we were looking out the window not washing dishes was that we’d need a heavy linen curtain/hand towel to peak though … all that thinking has been so worth it from my POV

    • Yasssss! The table/island kinda just doesn’t…work the other way. It seems like it would but then it just looks very weird when you try. I’ve been all over the map with these plans!

  61. Daniel, I love your ideas and I think you should do what feels good to you. Although there is some savvy kitchen designing happening in the blogosphere, and I do have a thousand pics on Pinterest myself, North Americans get too tied-up in standard kitchen cabinetry, whether builder basic or custom. Your home cries out for the unfitted look with old hutches, dressers, hoosiers and other vintage storage. As an ex-Brit, it still surprises me how uncommon this lovely style is and with the help of my designer friend who is awesome in this regard, we are working on doing this is my kitchen renovation. I was unsure at first as my home is only 15 years old, but shopping for the solid wood pieces with their own history now makes mdf and plywood boxes seem so faux.
    Yes, you have to be a bit braves and swim away from the crowd but the results are so YOU and would look fabulous in your home. Just a thought.

    • I definitely hear you! It’s my biggest problem with this design, but at the end of the day…maybe because I AM, after all, an American…I do want a fair amount of normal new kitchen cabinetry that easily glides open and closed and fits interior organizers and all that jazz. I LOVE the unfitted kitchen to a point, you know? And because I have a whole house to play with with old pieces all over the place, I think I’m OK with doing something that ties in nicely to the age of the house, doesn’t draw too much attention…just simple and works. I think that’ll be good in this kitchen because I have the huge chimney and wood stove, lots of moldings (replicated to match the rest of the house, naturally), the old table, antique/vintage objects on display…I think of the cabinets as just being a neutral backdrop for that kind of stuff, if that makes sense. It’s a tough balancing act!

  62. I could not agree more on recessed lighting…. It looks fine in modern new construction, but in my opinion, it looks odd and bazaar in anything remotely old. Whenever I see a beautiful 19th century home that has been poisoned with pot-lights, my heart dies just a little bit. It’s just not right.

    • I’m there with you. Completely see the appeal, would never do it myself! They’re nice for Olivebridge but not for me. :)

  63. You had me at bar sink! That pantry is amazing. It has been my life-long (or at least 5-year) dream of owning a bar sink, but in my med-sized kitchen, it makes no sense. Womp, womp. Please, please keep that bar sink (with window view – swoon!) for all of us. In case my husband is reading this, please know that I love my kitchen nook with husband-made built in storage, very very much.

    The rest of the kitchen looks great, too! I know you’re figuring it out, but my unsolicited advice is to add an exhaust hood. I don’t cook every night, but I still manage to get grease and grime everywhere – and I have a hood. If you’re planning on open shelves, I think it’s a must.

  64. First, let me say that I have not read all the 1000 comments you’ve already received. So if I’m repeating something that someone else has suggested, I apologize.
    You mention that folks thought your island is to close to the fireplace. I thought so to. But instead of replacing it with something smaller (like the table), why not swing it around so it faces the other direction?
    That way you don’t lose your work space.
    Also…once your fridge is in place, change the way the door swings. I’ve seen so many kitchens that have the fridge door swing the wrong way. It’s a pet peeve of mine. Granted, your rendering is just that…a rendering. So I won’t get to worked up over it.

  65. YAY! You did it! The pantry is perrrrffeectt. Transom!! Tiny Sink?! Cleaning supplies closet?!?! Shut the butler’s door. I would even keep my blender and microwave in there because then you can just throw stuff from the fridge right in. Banish all the ugly appliances!!

    I used to babysit for your cousins (I think? Based on an old post? Reese and Tatum? Sorry if this is weird/I’m wrong) and when they redid their kitchen in Hyde Park, I was so sad that they got rid of this quirky little pantry. I totally understood because their style is so modern, and of course it looked amazing when it was done, but I do feel like it’s karmically appropriate that you are adding one back in :)

    • HOLY CRAP THAT IS WEIRD. Yes, those are my cousins!! So funny! And yes, blender and microwave in there for sure!! Banish it all!

      You know, I never got to see that house before the renovations (which I think are absolutely gorgeous and beautifully executed in so many ways, by the way, of course), only after! Probably a VERY good thing, haha. And Janis and Tom don’t document *quite* as thoroughly as I do, so I’m not sure I ever will. But I’m not sure I want to know that!! It’s a great kitchen but clearly walls have been removed and things significantly opened up…it’s not what I would have done but it’s also a very different house with very different homeowners. Still inspirational, though! The sink/shelf situation here and the widened/heightened pantry door was absolutely inspired by that kitchen.

      (sorry, I can’t get over how funny and strange this is! I can’t wait to tell them.)

      • It IS weird!! I started reading your blog a few years ago and had a crazy moment the day I found that post about your family while perusing the archives. I babysat them in 2008 – 2010 or so – I was mainly the Brown’s babysitter, but then they moved down to Hyde Park! They are the sweetest :)

        I was a college student living in an apartment where one of my roommates LITERALLY lived in a closet, so everything about their house felt so magical (their Bucktown house too!) Neither of my parents were into design or even like, colors, so it was really inspiring for me to watch them renovate! Before they started, the house looked like someone (ok, an older lady who loved plush furniture) completely decorated it, and then just left it for 75 years. Serious time capsule. Wallpaper everywhere, curtains that looked like 80s dresses, lots of (maybe original) brass fixtures, and dark wood. The pantry was this skinny little nook with gorgeous woodwork and lots of shelving. You probably don’t want more details ;) I think everyone makes different decisions when it comes to their own space, and that’s what is so great about it! There are so many different things that look good and are functional. They completely turned the space around, and were the first people to use wallpaper that I actually thought looked good! You obviously have good design genes!!

        (Though I do secretly want to hurt people who paint wood trim in craftsman houses, but that’s something I need to work through)

      • So funny. Made my day! But yeah, I don’t want to hear more about the beautiful demolished butler’s pantry!! Haha. Hopefully some materials were salvaged and donated. I will say, though, if there’s anyone I trust on matters of renovations and good taste, it’s Janis and Tom! Hands down the best new construction and renovation jobs I’ve ever seen have been their doing (and they seem to have unbelievable contractors who totally get them, which is awesome). I’m sure I would have renovated the hyde park house with a bit more of a purist attitude, but that’s just how I approach things by nature I think? I have so much respect for what was done (somehow they even made recessed lighting totally OK!) that I really can’t begrudge them any of their decisions at all. They blow me away!

  66. I adore the changes… I’ve always said “once you own a butlers pantry, what else is there to own?” I kept remarking to myself how wonderfully period all of the details are, see what I mean? http://imgur.com/sgA4cXO

  67. Maaaaaaan, you are building my damn dream kitchen. I might have actually gone a little faint at that updated pantry sketch. I’m so into the fridge being in there instead of out in the kitchen proper (who wants to be looking at a fridge anyway?!) and THAT WEE BAR SINK!!! I love it all so much. I am also firmly on your side with the sink/stove placement of option A.

    As far as a range hood goes… meh. I rarely use mine for actually venting, but I will say that I use the light on its underside almost daily. I don’t particularly like the bright overhead kitchen light situation that I’ve got going on, so I frequently switch on the hood light and the pendents over my half wall instead. I think your sconces will pretty much do the same thing.

    My only other comment is about the table/island situation. I like the size of the table, but the visual weight of the island. So maybe a scaled down island would be a nice compromise?

    • Yes, that’s possible! I think I’ll just have to feel it out as some of the other elements fall into place. SketchUp only gets you so far—there’s nothing like really seeing/using it in real life!

  68. I love the revised pantry, but it’s your kitchen! I wouldn’t sweat the triangle too much – room around your sink and prep space is far more important! Couple of things I would suggest – don’t assume you can put everything in the pantry. Make sure to find space around the stove for spices, those well-love bowls and pans you use every day, and all your various utensils you use daily. You will think you it’s no big deal to get these out of the pantry, but it will become a pain very quickly. Another thing I would suggest is to find a place to tuck in a bit of pegboard in the butler’s pantry. I have a similar space by my kitchen, and we did this on one wall and it made such a difference. All those weird things that don’t fit anywhere can now hang there, out of my way.

    One more thing – I wanted shaker style pegs, but have dogs and wasn’t sure how such an arrangement would hold up to my babies careening into walls as they play. We put nice antique-y hooks on 1×2 boards we had painted to match the kitchen walls and then mounted the 1x2s along the walls. The hooks keep things securely in place, the hooks are secured to the boards, and the 1×2 boards are securely screwed into studs. It was an easy solution and still kept the old-fashion cottage look we were going for. I hope your babies are easier on the walls than mine are!

  69. Really digging your thought process as it unfolds around this kitchen. This iteration feels better, for sure. Love a good table turned island, too.

    I think you’re correct about the sink and stove placement. Ignore the window people. It doesn’t totally work for the footprint of this kitchen with these windows.

    The upper cabinets as pantry cabinets, you will LOVE. I just did that in my condo’s stupid wide entry and put a wood top on them. So much great storage. Totally deep enough for plates and most platters.

    And the bar sink is AMAZING. Do it. Also, you have dogs, so a damp rag here or there when they come back inside will have you never regretting that sink.

    Oh! And ice trays. (Shudder) Hate them. Some fridges are just not sold with the ice maker part but it’s totally something you can buy and add after the fact. Maybe look up your model and see if that’s an option. Cuz if you feel like the Queen of England with two sinks, imagine what you’d feel like with ready made ice!

    • Huh, that never occurred to me!! But actually I think there is a place in the back for the line to go in, so I gotta assume you’re right. Ha! (unless I’m making that up—I might have it confused with the Olivebridge fridge…). The fridge is about ten years old so I wonder how hard it would be to make it happen…I hate filling ice trays!

  70. Wow, so many comments! Not like you need more feedback, but….my favorite thing about this is the woodstove.

    My aunt’s house in rural PA has a woodstove, and I have many fond memories of her using it while preparing thanksgiving dinner. It was so functional (as a second oven/cooktop) when hosting a gathering, and it created such a cozy vibe. I love that choice for you and this kitchen. Well done!

  71. Hi Daniel!

    I’m going to add my two cents – cause I just can’t help myself! My range is very like the set-up in Option A and I LOVE it. I have 24″ wide windows on either side with the range in the middle. No shelves, nothing above except the range hood. It leaves ample room on either side for all of the cutting boards and misc small bowls I use for mise en place when I’m cooking. My sink is over to the right side on a different ‘leg’ of the U as well and it works perfectly. Dirty cooking dishes go from the right of the stove to the corner to the sink and dishwasher.

    I will say one thing though, in the summer, when the windows are open, it’s nearly impossible to cook with a gas stove. The wind comes in and blows the flame out on the burners, leaving the gas running. It’s not big deal for me, I’m just careful to close the windows before I cook. It might drive someone else nutso though.

    I love your plans so far. I’m sure it’s going to turn out incredibly beautiful!

    Best,

    Sara

    • Oh nice! Kitchen twins!

      I wonder if lowering the top sash on my windows for ventilation would solve the wind/flame issue? All these windows are double-hung. But that’s a good thing to think about! Hadn’t occurred to me. Thank you!

      • Yes, you’ll want to open those windows from the top. Since windows above counters are harder to open (even from the bottom, much less the top) see if you can find a little metal cup thing to sink into the top sash, and then a metal pole of sorts with a hook thing on the end that hooks into the cup so you can easily pull down the top sash a bit. This is how they opened the top sash of the real tall windows of the schools in my childhood. Will make it really easy to open and close the windows without having to climb on the countertop or chairs.

  72. I am now on board. I was team fridge niche and still am, but I really like your butler’s pantry. I respect your kitchen update with a nod to the past. Tiny bar sink is delightful and you will love it. Do it! Keep working those plans- it just keeps getting better. How nice to have a thoughtful, purposeful kitchen of your dreams instead of a generic , new construction kitchen. I am so happy for you! This is so fun!

  73. I’m kinda sorry you won’t have that huge expanse of work space now, lol :) I have a long peninsula, and love all the space to stretch out and make cookies, bread, etc. Now that you are losing your china chest, is there more room for the extra work space? I hate to see you lose all that storage underneath. And what if you decide you want some open shelving in the kitchen? Can you lose some of the wall sconces for that, or no?

    • It’s not off the table (had to!) yet! And there’s a lot of countertop! I think there’s enough work space, but I know what you mean. I find the island very appealing in a practical sense and I think it could be a great piece, but only if it fits! The main thing I can’t do here is make more space, you know?

      So the idea is that there’s a single long (but fairly deep) open shelf both above the sink (about 9’6″ long!) and another one to the left of the door to the pantry (when you’re standing in the kitchen—another 8 feet!), so there’s lots of shelf space! I actually don’t think I’ve lost as much storage as it seems, and it looks to me like there’s still enough. But I haven’t gotten to the stage of figuring out drawer/shelf arrangements for each cabinet—that’s next! I’ll figure it out. There would be space between the dining room and pantry door for something but I think a bench might be of more value since…sorta let the kitchen pick up some of the mudroom duties that don’t fit in the pantry without…well, losing the pantry.

  74. I have to chime in and say having extra counter space for prep next to a stove would be amazing (don’t have it now and I dream of it), so I’m partial to Option A. Also, my last place was a crappy apt but we had our fridge in the pantry mostly because the landlord stuck it there, but ended up loving it. A fridge is a big hulking appliance and I didn’t have a fancy design-y one, so it was nice in its own area where it didn’t take up valuable visual space. Also also, that tiny sink — so wonderfully fancy. And useful! And having a way to peek into the backyard from the kitchen seems great! Just a few cents from a total stranger who spends way too much time visualizing whether she should knock down the wall between her kitchen and dining room…

    • That’s good to hear about the fridge!

      (if you live in an older home, use caution when thinking about opening up walls! It’s usually not a good idea! Just a few cents from a total stranger… :)

  75. I love the new design…and I was for the fridge niche. I would also add a hot water tap to your bar sink. I wish we had added one to our kitchen when we did our redesign. A friend has one and I’m green with envy.

    • Oh, yes! I think the sink will likely just have a single tap and both hot and cold. It didn’t even occur to me to just run a cold line, haha!

      • I think they meant one of those little things you see in offices, sometimes, where there’s a little separate tap on the sink to the side of the usual hot and cold handles, that dispenses boiling water so you can make tea or whatever without boiling it first, usually with a red plastic lever handle to operate it so you know it is dispensing hot water. But maybe not. In any event, not really necessary to have in a home.

  76. OMG. I love tiny bar sink. I just picture bringing fresh cut flowers in from the yard and prepping them in that tiny sink. And all those shelves would just be full of beautiful vessels. I’m also totally on board with your tucked-away fridge. WAY more appropriate for an old house. And in the tiny bar sink, doing a facuet like this??? So you can fill things nicely?

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/73887250117924621/

    • Oh, das fancy! I don’t know, maybe??? I think it depends on the sink…and final placement of it, but assuming it’s in front of this window then maybe a faucet with an extendable hose would be a bit more functional.

  77. Love the table, love the pantry. As for where to put your sink and stove, go with your gut. Having a window behind your sink isn’t a must. I’ve lived at 11 addresses and only two had sinks in front of windows.

  78. I love option B! Except I would put the sink between the windows instead of under one. I know that’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but it looks off balance to me being under a window. It looked more balanced in option A when you had the stove there, but the sink looked odd on that short wall too. Also, yes yes yes! to the bark sink! I mean, why not?! It’s your butler’s pantry! Do what you will!

    • Thanks Amanda! I think for me the issue with swapping the sink and the stove is that I don’t see how it benefits either…in other words, with that arrangement, the sink gets a TON of counter space on either side (which I’m not sure why one would really want/need?) but the stove only gets the two feet on either side. I dunno, I think Option A is gonna stick!

      • First, yes, I’m the total weirdo who came back a month later and read your response all because I finally remembered to look. Oops! Second, now that I think about it you’re probably right on Option A. My stove is on the shortest wall of my kitchen and has one tiny cabinet on either side and where do I literally do EVERY. SINGLE. THING in my kitchen?! At the stove, of course! My mom makes fun of me all the time for using my stove top like a counter top. But a girl’s gotta do what a girl’s gotta do! So, yeah, it would make way more sense to have the most counter space around the stove. I wish mine was on my longest wall of counter top, but alas it is not and I don’t even want to think about trying to move it. Anyway, happy renovating!

  79. Oh, to have a butler’s pantry!! I’m pretty sure my kitchen is about the size of one, but I would like to someday have one, IN ADDITION TO, a proper sized kitchen. Love the new old-table/island thing, and of course you have to do the mini sink. Necessary shmecessary… it’s worth the hassle!

    As for the sink window debate, mine looks out onto a brick wall, and doesn’t inspire any great feats of dish washing…

  80. LOL! You are mad, love the writing and your thinking behind this. very interesting and great to play around with everyone’s ideas and suggestions. I do like the idea of new pantry layout, it seem make more sense as you have a surface to drop all your shopping there, unpack and put away with short distance. And sink nearby is also important for any situation. Am I correct that you lose toilet on other side? Oh also I think you should be able to shift back door a bit to the left so door frame isn’t touching the counter on the right side?

    However for the main sink, I do not like that placement / window outlook, it look wrong and out of balance from room view, I think I did suggested you to place between two windows, so you face the wall and it give better privacy, so no one can see you doing washing up from outside! :)

    • Oh sorry, I just cropped the renderings differently! The footprint of the pantry/half bath are unchanged from before, I just moved the exterior door and rearranged the pantry a bit. Bathroom is still on the other side of the wall!

  81. With this new plan, the fridge belongs there. It’s the pantry. The fridge is just the cold part of the pantry. Totally makes sense to me now.

  82. We have no rangehood, and after living in the house for over 5 years (and the previous owners for a couple before that) we have no issues – I’d say go for it!

    I also think the fridge in the butler pantry is definitely the way to go. And I love the second sink – great if you have guests over for dinner to throw last minute dirty dishes!

    The only thing that looks strange to me is the table in place of the bench in the middle of the room. It looks low and small. In our house, the previous owners bought an old piece of furniture to use as an island bend, but they put some extra wood under the legs to raise the height and added a stone top and it’s fantastic in our tiny kitchen. The heightened legs make it seem much better proportion in the room and it can be used to prepare food etc, which we couldn’t without the extra height. They painted it so you can hardly tell the legs have been altered. Just a thought? Here’s a picture if you are interested? http://www.desiretoinspire.net/blog/2011/4/5/queenslander.html

    • All options! The table in the drawings was just from SketchUp’s pre-made “warehouse” of models…so it can get bigger or smaller or taller or shorter or whatever! Just a concept at this point. :)

      • Agreed that the normal table might look a little low in the space–but instead of putting it up on blocks, why not little lockable wheels? This would give the table another 2″ or so of height, and then you can easily slide the table/island out of the way when you want to curl up in front of the stove.

  83. I have a free bar sink! More importantly I agree with you on the sink in front of a window. What the heck is everyone looking when they are washing pots and pans? Also another plus about not putting it under a window is a wall mount faucet-oh how I long for one!! I also like where you have the fridge and would prefer it out of the main kitchen too. Keep visualizing, you will decide on the best options and of course make changes as you go since you never know what you’ll run into. I can’t wait until phase two!

    • Haha, is it cute?? Do I want it? You know I like free! :)

      • Strange I posted a reply days ago and it isn’t showing. I sent you a private message with a pic. Probably more utilitarian than cute…

  84. I agree with you that the view from the sink window isn’t great. I have that problem except I am looking at neighbor’s garbage cans. I obscured that view but kept the light by putting a faux stained glass border on the bottom ( you’d use real ! ) Or simple frosted at the bottom or sheers at the bottom half. Or follow you gut and move the dang sink. Love the idea of the table instead of island. Love your posts, I really look forward to them.

    • Haha, I’m moving the dang sink! I will need to figure out some way to create privacy with these windows, but probably just simple blinds.

  85. I built a table gor my kitchen from an beautifu tall, but narrow, door, hairpin legs, painted. BEST thing I did! I use two staced picnic baskets underneath for storage.

    My kitchen also has mosyly drawers for storage and, although sktical at firsy, I now love them. I also added metal pull-outs in some lower cabinets to make them more useful.

    Great work you are doing…maybe my next house will be an older gem!

  86. Have you thought about a vintage stove? https://www.antiquestoveheaven.com/magic-chef

    I can almost see an option where it stands alone on that planned peg/apron wall. Prep at the table, see cool stove from the dining room. Or, if you wanted to still try to do an island, maybe it has the sink in it to be closer to the stove? I agree with you about the view from the sink – it would almost make the dishwashing chore worse!

    • Thought about it…very briefly…I don’t think it’s for me! I know it’s not a fair comparison, but this is coming after years of super crappy apartment stoves and the past 3 years with a 1960s (maybe 70s) Sears-Kenmore electric with only one strong burner that worked reliably…ENOUGH! I just want something brand spanking new, that works, that’s nice, that’s easy, blah blah. It’s not cool but hey…I’m not that cool! :)

  87. Oh also, also: check out the hammered — and nailed! — copper sink in the Blake Hill House butler’s pantry!

    • Ohhhh that is so nice!

      • Isn’t it just? BHH is my current fave — she’s doing a series of posts about the history of the house and its puzzling hybrid of Victorian and Colonial architecture.

        (I think my earlier comment got eaten — too many links on one comment? Probably I borked the HTML. Anyway, I see now that: others had already commented about hanging chairs on shaker pegs; that Kristin HERSELF posted about her fabulous UK pegs in her fabulous master bath; and there’s plenty of agreement that the little sink would be great for washing off freshly-picked veggies/flowers/the dogs and/or filling with ice and tasty beverages for parties. Martha Stewart AF, y’all!)

  88. So I can’t remember if I made this comment yet or not so if I’m repeating myself sorry, I blame moving house and shift work for brain fade. My Nan never have a range hood because her house was old. but she didi install a fan unit into the window. Now that was a bit ugly and it did get greasy but if you put some kind of bathroom fan in to the roof or through the wall instead if you really needed to get rid of the smell of grilled Salmon (my main reason for wanting a range hood in my old house)

    • Yeah, that’s an option I’m considering! My friend did something similar with a bathroom/laundry fan in his old house and has it disguised behind a super cute shallow little cabinet that you can’t tell has no bottom! So you reach in, flip it on, and the smoke gets sucked through the bottom-less cabinet and outside. It’s brilliant!

      • If you’re still reading comments…so that’s regular bathroom fan ducting going through the ceiling and then to a vent on the outside of the house? That’s brilliant. I wonder if I could hook such a contraption into the already existing ducting over the powder room next to our kitchen that serves that powder room’s fan. It’s only a straight eight feet or so away…that would save us having to drill a hole in the side of our house where we plan to put a patio when we eventually vent our fan to the outside and also hide the range fan, which is lovely as fans go but I hate them all.

  89. I still think option A. I think that one actually looks prettier. At any rate it looks more symmetrical and it also gives you space on either side of the stove, for prepped stuff (one side) and cooked stuff (other side). I never wish I had more space on both sides of my sink but I always want more space on both sides of my stove.

    Forgive my late late (last night) comment on the last kitchen post. Now that I’ve seen this: I get why no can lighting. Still encourage you to think about a ceiling fan (for ventilation after cooking). And, as someone who has a 5′ island and still does not always think it’s big enough (big catch all bowl on one end, iPad on the other, and I occasionally roll something out, or knead something) – the bigger the island the better. And yes, why recess the fridge? it’s like hiding a TV. And YES YES YES BAR SINK. You will use it all the time. In your scullery. For arranging flowers. And making cocktails. As Martha does.

    • Oh, and yes absolutely fridge in pantry. My dream.

      On open shelves and no range hoods (now that I’ve read comments): we have some open shelves about 2′, 3′, and 5′ from the stove and only the ones right over the stove have ever gotten greasy.

      I gotta say it again. YES YES YES BAR SINK.

      • I’m gonna be SO Martha in that pantry! Me and my buckets of hydrangeas, just a regular day!

        (that’s good to hear about the shelves/no range hood combo working fine!)

  90. It’s going to be a really nice kitchen! I like the pantry very much, with the fridge there. An unfitted kitchen… that’s so great. I’m in love with your kitchen, definitely .

  91. Option A 2.0 is awesome! I love the stove centered between the window (yay more counter space by the stove!!!) and the more almost-symmetrical layout for the wood stove. And mudroom/butlers pantry 2.0 is amazing. Please make the tiny sink happen! It will also be a very useful spot for quickly rinsing BBQ tools, etc.

    And I’m so glad you are holding strong against the kitchen facing fridge niche. When I lived in a tiny shoe box in NYC, our fridge was stuffed in a closet. It looked ridiculous and it was really annoying visually. I know a niche would look better, but I’m with you on it not looking right in your kitchen.

  92. There is an exterior door in your pantry without any heating device, no place for boots full of snow, wet mittens and winter coats. The wood floor will have to be mopped properly (frequently) to avoid damage by water. Worst, you will add a small (and probably ugly) carpet to catch the dirt and the mud on the shoes and to keep your sanity.
    During wintertime, the comfort in the kitchen will be compromised if the door is used frequently or if the insulation is not adequate,
    The design of your pantry is lovely and I like it but this exterior door has to be taken into account.
    My comment is irrelevant if you have a mud room between the exterior door and your pantry.
    Sorry for the quality of my writing, my knowledge of English is not very good. My fighting with an exterior door in the kitchen is a daily occurrence though.

    • I’m taking it into account! I think what this comes down to is…the only option that doesn’t exist here is making more space. The house is what it is! So, I don’t really have a mudroom. I have a pantry which has a door to the backyard in it. I don’t think that’s so awful, personally! That door currently exists IN the kitchen proper (to the right of the chimney) and that’s also never been an issue. I think for me this’ll be just fine. :)

  93. I had a butler’s pantry in my second apartment, and I LOVED it. It was a great way to stay out of the way when someone else was cooking, and it helped hide clutter/mess. I don’t think I would mind having a fridge right off the kitchen either… it’s not much further to walk, and with the extra prep space it’s really not a big deal.

    I would, however, caution against the table over the island. We had this set up in our current house for a few years, and it never felt quite right. The table is awkward to prep on because it’s shorter than the counters, and sitting around the table while someone else is cooking feels weirdly uncomfortable. It also isn’t a very natural thing to hang around when you’re entertaining and everyone inevitably ends up hanging out in the kitchen. We just replaced our table with an island and LOVE IT. It’s on the smaller side, with bar seating for two, but I would never go back to the table. If I were you, I’d shorten the island (but, symmetry! I know!) and maybe put a spot for a few bar stools at the end and along the non-cabinet side. That way you can tuck in the stools to avoid foot-burning, but still have the awesome counter-height prep space.

    Just a thought! But really, you’re clearly good at this house stuff, so you do you ;-)

  94. First off, I love your blog and have been following for forever. I’m not good at commenting as others more witty usually say what I would anyway. However, I NEED to comment on your kitchen! I love love it. I have had wall cabinets as base cabinets in an entire former kitchen due to space issues and actually loved them as everything was in reaching distance. Speaking of reaching, I’ve also had window boxes with herbs and could never reach out the window to get them, you’d need NBA reach to even consider it. You will be washing windows constantly if you put the sink under them and if you don’t wash windows you will be so sad to see spotted windows every minute. Your fridge placement is perfect. I had a pantry with fridge and it was better than ok. You will love your baby sink, had that too in an older kitchen. I can’t wait to see the finished product!!

    • Aw, thanks for chiming in! So nice!

      Noted about the window box herbs! I think you’re probably right about being impossible to reach. Plenty of space in the backyard for that, I guess!

  95. FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC! Love it. /endofstory.

  96. I love this plan!

  97. Have not read through all of the comments so could already be covered. That wood stove? Is it already there? I have seen kitchens with the fireplace at eye height, above the island. A thought. And do the bar sink!! Coffee station, perfect!!

  98. Love love love the pantry room, it’s perfect. Absolutely have that extra sink, if that’s a door to the outside you’ll be thankful for it when you need to dump muddy veggies from the garden, you can wash them off there then put them straight in the fridge! (Assuming at some point you’ll have a vegetable garden too!£

  99. I really like the layout. I think the bar sink actually makes the pantry and frig placement feel intentional and more of a destination spot rather than just a walk through space. Taking the frig out of the main space also really opens it up for entertaining. You won’t have to constantly ask people to move out of the way when you are hosting your Applebee’s commercial-esque parties. As to the sink, I would put it where you want it and tell us all to take a hike. Every time I design something for myself and then let someone talk me into a different layout when I really don’t want to do it, I regret it and it bugs me when I look at it.

    I like the table instead of the island. I have an old Victorian Farmhouse and it has an oddly-shaped kitchen that needed an island space and also a table to eat at. I built a farmhouse harvest-style table, but did it at counter height and put some stools around it that could tuck totally under the table. It suits the space, but the height allows me to use it as a counter and I can walk right up to it since the stools aren’t in the way. It is the most popular location for parties and I chop and prepare food on it all the time. Had I not needed a really specific size I would have bought an old table and added casters to get it to the height I wanted. I was worried the counter-height was going to stick out as an oddity, but several people thought it was an old workbench table that I’d re-purposed, so it didn’t read as new because of the height. It could work for you if you feel like you need the counter space, but want the functionality of a table, too. Feel free to tell me and my idea to shove it. :)

    Also, I love your writing.

    • Shove it! Hahaha JK JK. It’s a good idea, for sure! Totally possible. And who knows, I might just find the perfect vintage/antique thing and that’ll be that!

  100. I am curious to hear more about your alternative ventilation ideas in lieu of a range hood. I am currently without a range hood, and I didn’t realize how much I’d miss one. My house is a tiny DC row house and if I want to sear anything a friend has to be stationed under the smoke detector flapping an unread section of the NYT. If I cook bacon, my bedroom smells of bacon– I don’t think it that’s the worst thing, but it was a real turn off for the jewish vegan I dated. A range hood would look terrible on my lovely exposed brick wall, and I think it would make the already small space feel tiny.

    • I forgot to add that a window in front of the sink is overrated. I have no interest in ligering over the dishes– the only things that get handwashed are my knives and cast-iron skillets. Everything else gets shoved in the dishwasher.

      • OK, so there are…
        1. Down-venting ranges. Reviews seem mixed. Prices seem very high. Prob not gonna happen.
        2. Retractable exhaust thing, which raises and lowers from counter height. This kind of thing.
        But it looks like it’s able to be so small because there’s a whole motor machinery component that pretty much takes up the entire base cabinet next to the stove. So…hmmm…:/
        3. Old school exhaust fan. Some kind of basic thing like this.
        Could be disguised in a cool way, cheap, simple, very small compared to other options? Maybe more conspicuous from the exterior but then again I’m not even sure? Might be a nice middle-ground option…

        I think that’s all I’ve really got!

  101. I like option B but agree that the sink looks and feels (as I feel it with, you know, my mind) too far from the stove. I’d vote for putting it between the two windows. Really, we spend most of our time in the kitchen *prepping* things, and so then you’d be prepping things in front of your window boxes, and having normal, backsplashy-type situations behind your sink and your stove.

    Team butler’s pantry, all the way!

    • This seems to be the suggestion du jour! I just don’t understand why it’s more appealing than having the stove between the windows and the sink on the other wall? It just seems like a way to give the sink way too much surrounding counter space and the stove too little!

      • Hmm, I think prep near a sink is at least as functional as prep near a stove. In town my kitchen is a compact U-shaped galley with most of the counter on one leg of the U, the sink at the short end, and the stove on the other leg. I do all my prep at the counter, obviously, and then take stuff to the stove for actual cooking. I wish I had more room next to the sink for purposes of piling up greens I’ve washed, etc. (Do always consider your views of sinks from other rooms, though–sinks nearly always have dirty dishes on the counter on one side and a dish rack on the other side, unlike in the pretty bare-countered pictures in magazines!) In the country the prep is at the gigantic island, and again I could use more space around the sink but I’ve never really bemoaned the very small counters by the stove.

        I think you’ve solved the biggest fridge-in-pantry issues with the bar sink, for the coffee/ice cube/etc. reasons you mentioned. Nice to make your coffee near the fridge, anyway, so cream (or whatever) is handy, as well.

  102. I found myself continuously nodding my head as I read this. It all just seems to make sense! I love the idea of the whole butler’s pantry/scullery/larder, and it seems like this would look amazing and totally fit with the house. I immediately thought you should put hooks underneath the bottom shelf in the pantry for mugs. They would be so cute hanging there and they would be right next to your coffee station! My only hesitation is the lack of mudroom in the pantry. I know you’ve been living without the old mudroom for a bit now, but my kitchen has our main entry door near the driveway opening right into it without any buffer and it drives me bonkers. So I’m wondering… how much do you currently use that door? Am I correct in remembering that this would be the closest door to your driveway and garage? Do you even park there anyway? If you don’t really enter the house this way then by all means carry on as is.

    • I probably should have clarified that! Maybe that’s where some of the stronger mudroom reactions are coming from. This door is basically just access to the backyard for me and the dogs—that’s it! It is the closest door to the driveway and the garage, but…no, I don’t park there! The front door is definitely the primary and frequently used entrance/exit, so I really feel strongly that this will be fine! :)

  103. I love this kitchen already! Just two comments: (1) I’d put the sink between the windows. (2) I would want a spot to put things down when coming into the mud room/pantry from outside. Right now, the obvious spot is right where the little sink is. Me, I would move the sink further down the counter. Also, I’d like some floor area for shoes/boots, and a little bench so I could put on or take off those shoes/boots without hopping around on one foot. And maybe some wall area for hanging up a coat etc.

  104. Tiny bar sink is a wonderful idea! It gives you a place to scrub up after coming in from the yard if someone else is cooking.

  105. A butler’s pantry with a tiny bar sink is a great idea! We had a tiny bar sink in a tiny wetbar in a house we used to rent. It’s really the only thing I miss about that house.

  106. Not that it should matter what I think, but Loooove the bulter pantry especially the tiny sink in there for the brilliant reasons you mentioned. Also I’m totally in camp-option-a. Kitchen looks more balanced and most importantly it’s what you want. Go with your gut. It’s a lovely gut and we all love it and are secretly jealous. So pumped to see all the things no matter what you do.

  107. First time commenting!! 100% love option A, with the stove between the two windows. It just looks…right. I love the idea of having natural light flooding in around the cooking area. Also obsessed with the butlers pantry with the fridge. You just made me add that to my list for my future dream house (which also includes a solarium and proper back porch/mudroom with a soapstone utility sink). I can’t wait to see this kitchen!!

    • Aw, thanks for commenting! “De-lurking,” I think we call it. :)

      Soapstone utility sink is the stuff of dreams! I have friends here in Kingston who had an amazing huge double-basin one in the basement of their 1859 house…my immediate reaction to seeing it (I always want to go in the basement!) was “OMG, put that up in your kitchen when you renovate!” It had never occurred to them before but they did it! Totally makes the kitchen. So cool. So jealz.

  108. Ok, so as someone who has an original kitchen chimney like yours, and cabinets on either side in the two configurations you’re considering, let me just say… For the love of all that’s holy turn the corner and butt into the chimney! All my cabinets are 1920’s salvage, so I set them up how they best fit in my 1880’s kitchen. On one side this meant a short section next to the chimney, and on the other a long run that doesn’t turn the corner. That dead space irks me to no end, it looks unfinished and unbalanced, and accumulates things that like to lean against walls. Ugly things. Like mops. Which is funny, since the cabinet door they end up blocking is the broom closet. Turn the corner, then add some open shelving between the brick and side wall. Easy….

    • Hmmmm. I think maybe the difference here, though, is that the cabinets are just on one side of the chimney? Which I think makes it look less balanced than without the return! I feel like that chimney needs some space to breathe!

  109. Getting it in before the polls close: yes on Option A for stove/sink, yes on Fridge in pantry, YES on bar sink, yes on repurposed doorway, yes on armchair in kitchen.

    I’m wondering about the new door to the outside – will there be any kind of overhang or (and I can’t believe I’m suggesting this after all the little doodad rooms you’ve demolished) a vestibule?

    • Up and down the ticket! You win! :)

      Ya know, that’s a good question! I’d say safely no vestibule (that’s, like, a whole addition!), but I can actually see doing a little overhang roofy thing over that doorway. The pantry space is a boxy, awkward addition that might actually benefit from something like that…kinda dress her up a bit. And it would be nice for when it’s raining and stuff. Damn you, Leslie! I don’t need more projects!! :)

  110. I love seeing your sketchup ideas! I say put the sink and stove wherever you feel they should go! And keeping the fridge and appliances out of sight is a classy manoeuvre, there’s no doubt about that. I don’t normally work in feet and inches but I design a lot of (Australian) kitchens for a living and 3′ is a bit tight as a gap between bench zones..you should try for 3’6″ or 4’…there’s my two cents. Happy sketchupping :)

  111. I think it’s a great improvement!! Love the butler’s pantry – the transom window… the tiny sink!! Love!! As for the main sink… what about bringing back the island so it’s smaller and maybe more square and than sticking the sink in there? (Sorry if that’s been suggested already, I started reading through the comments but it’s getting late and at the moment I need sleep more than I need to read comments. )

    • I have read all the replies so far and didn’t see anyone suggesting a sink on the island. That was my instinct, too. Maybe it’s not suitable for the house but it would be a great solution. Also you could put some narrower cabinets to the windowless wall like the ones for the pantry if you choose to switch the sink to the island, and gain bonus room for the island. So excited for this kitchen :)

      • Oh good! Thanks! I started reading through as I didn’t want to suggest something that had possibly been discussed at length but then I remembered I have this little one that wakes me up at God awful hours of the night so I should probably just go to bed. Haha!

        It’s hard to say without actually being in the kitchen but without the hutch I think the island is totally feasible. And a sink in the island solves the staring at the wall vs. staring out a window with a crappy view dilemma. I’m sure if I was in Daniel’s shoes I’d be changing my mind 100 times too! I’m excited as well and I look forward to seeing what he ends up doing!

      • It could be done, but I don’t really see any benefit to putting the sink in the island? It would also force the island to become much more of a kinda modern normal island instead of the lighter, less built-in table thing I really want (even the first concept island would be easily moveable and raised off the floor on legs, but once you add plumbing that option goes away a bit!). I think it’s not for me, but I appreciate the suggestion!

  112. Daniel, I love the pantry with the tiny sink! Put the stove/sink wherever they suit you best. The next thoughts may be a bit out there but, have you considered a round island/prep table? The kitchen is very angular and that may soften it a bit (though you may lose a little prep size/space). Should you ever need it in the future, would you consider adding an electrical outlet to the island area — perhaps in the floor underneath if not directly attached to it? Finally, I could not agree more with the comment to keep your firewood out of and away from your home. Ew, the critters! Bring it indoors only for burning. Love your blog, your design talents and your conversational writing. If you write a book I will buy it — and many copies for family and friends.

    • Aw, thank you, Joanne! That’s very kind!

      Round/oval could work, sure! Good points!

      I don’t think any electric in the island itself, but because I want it to be easily moveable (by which I partially mean replaceable because WHO KNOWS when I might stumble across THE PERFECT table and then two months later stumble across A MORE PERFECT table. Floor is a possibility but I’m not really sure why…it would also be super easy to add whenever since the basement is unfinished.

      Clearly I need some lessons in owning a wood-burning appliance! This is new territory for me!

  113. I ‘m so glad you’re thinking about dumping the island. Looks like plenty of counter work space and a kitchen with room to move is wonderful. Option A seems better for the sink-stove arrangement, and you do have all those magnificent windows. This is fun.

  114. I like the bar sink idea – though make it a little bit bigger than teeny, tiny. I have an extra sink in my pretty small kitchen (because the main sink and stove feel really far apart), but I chose one that was too tiny. I would change that if it wasn’t such a pain. I agree that the stove goes between the windows. And I like the refrigerator in the butler’s pantry. All so exciting! Can’t wait to see it in real life.

    • Yes! The size of the sink is obviously restricted by the shallowness of those lower cabinets, but I’ll aim for bigger and deeper rather than smaller!

  115. This looks wonderful. It seems to be so much more pulled together as a unit. The pantry, the enlarged door
    and transom just seems so right,

  116. I love it. Do it. Do it all, tiny butler’s pantry sink and vaccuum cleaner cupboard in the pantry and all. It is your kitchen and you’ll be happy that you did the things the way YOU want them, not the way tradition/house trends might dictate. I (now) have a decent-sized kitchen, but before we renovated it, we didn’t have much space so we made a little tea/coffee-making nook just off the kitchen in a corner of the lounge, and I like it so much that it’s stayed permanently. It suits us! When we redid our kitchen, I also REALLY wanted to hide the microwave away in the new walk-in pantry, just because I hate the look of microwaves (they are such ugly appliances!) so I had an extra power point put in the pantry for it. However my husband fought me tooth and nail because HE wanted to have the microwave out on one of my beautiful new open shelves. His logic was, “But why would you want to go into the pantry to use the microwave when you could have it right there on the shelf or on a benchtop?” whereas my thinking is, I’m quite prepared to sacrifice a tiny bit of functionality for aesthetics. Same goes for your fridge situation – stuff the “working triangle”, you’ll get so used to going into the pantry to access the fridge that it will be fine. Your plan is awesome – do it :)

  117. Love the pantry. My parents have a tiny bar sink and mini fridge and we love it.

  118. Daniel, switching which wall will have the door in the pantry is brilliant. That fixes all the things! Put a water filter on your little bar sink, and look into the thingie that lets you have instant hot water on demand there too, and you’ll have the perfect hot beverage counterspace. And a cool print (this is the one I want, but I’m sure that there’s one out there that screams Daniel http://www.cafepress.com/girlgenius.1452699598 )

    In case you don’t know, you can switch which side the door opens on a fridge. I had it done a year or so ago, and it made a big difference in useability of our second fridge.

    • Good ideas! And yes—I actually have to take the door off the fridge to get it in and out of the kitchen (right now it elegantly resides in the dining room), and it’s very easy to switch the swing!

  119. The NUMBER ONE lesson I’ve learned in my 37 years of life is that you’ve gotta do you. This is your house. Do what makes you happy. And you know it’s going to look fab as hell anyway, so go right on ahead with your plans. Also, butler’s pantry sink = FANCY AF. Do it!

  120. Just something to think about, have you ever seen a mirror above the stove? We inherited a crazy standalone double oven/stove combo with our house. We switched it out for a gas range and it left a big space above where I guess most people might have put a microwave but I loathe over the stove microwaves. So we put a mirror there. At first I thought it might be weird to see yourself cooking but when you’re at the stove you aren’t looking up, you’re looking at the food you’re making. But when people are over you can look up and see them behind you and it’s nIce. And it bounces so much light around. Just thought I’d throw something out for that space.
    We’ve also never put in a vent above the stove. Had one in an apartment, literally never used it. Cook most nights and in seven years in our house I’ve never needed it. If anything does happen to splatter all the way to wall, it just hits the mirror which is super easy to wipe down.
    Love the second sink, love the nook, love the fridge in the scullery. Can’t wait to see it all come together!

    • In my house I have mirror above the sink, and I love it for the reasons you say. The sink had to go on an interior wall, and putting a mirror allows you to see behind you and out the windows while you stand there.

  121. Daniel,
    Love where you are going with this but two things to note, one is as already noted, your table/island I know you are thinking antique table, but if it’s to be a work surface too, then I’d ditch the antique part and have something made to look antique but at counter height for prepping etc as I fully know having to stoop to use a lower height counter makes my back ache, unless you sit down to prep, which I doubt you do.

    The other thing is now that you are gutting and rebuilding your kitchen, you may be forced to use current building codes which, by the way, have been codified across the country now so you may be required by code to have a hood over the stove to meet code as an inspector will check your place out during construction, just sayin’. Also, having a good hood will reduce the greasy mess that builds up on the walls, ceilings etc, and to extract the moisture from boiling water for rice or pasta etc, thus the reduction of potential mold. Again, just sayin’ – from experience.

    There are models out there that allow you to hide it and make it look like it always belonged so there is that to consider.

    Otherwise, I am liking where you are going with this.

  122. Is that your main entrance into the house?
    It feels a little mudroom-esque.
    I love the little sink and it makes even more sense at the back door- coming in from gardening etc.
    I just wonder how the butler’s pantry will function if that’s your main entrance – jackets, mail, misc. items that need to be returned, etc. I know if that was my set up, there wouldn’t be any prep space left, and there would be jackets and shoes everywhere.

    • It is the main entrance from the backyard, but the primary entrance in and out of the house is definitely the front door. That’s where the stuff piles up! There’s always been a door IN the kitchen and that’s never been a problem at all, so this feels like a big improvement!

  123. I think the sink would look better between the windows. This would be more balanced and bring it closer to the stove. The in-between windows location would also allow for the possibility of additional lighting such as sconces or another pendant light.

  124. I like your Option B but with the sink between the windows. The symmetry looks better and I personally need more prep space surrounding my sink than my stove. Think dish washing or loading and food prep. Otherwise, love everything about your new design. Totally support the extra sink too. Good place to also defrost stuff and keep other sink free.

  125. Just curious, are the drawings down with Google sketch up? Looking for free software so we can start planning our kitchen. Thanks!

    • Yep! It takes a bit to get the hang of, but it’s really a very simple program. It’s pretty much all lines and pushing and pulling things. I’ll say it’s NOT intuitive in the slightest at least to me, so I highly recommend watching some youtube tutorials to get the basics down if you’ve never used it. Otherwise you’ll open it, try it, freak out, get frustrated, and never use it again! (speaking from experience)

  126. I’m on board with the bar sink. Very practical, especially right next to your back door, where you can use it for potting plants, bringing in flowers, etc. Which of course you’ll do now, since you’re so fancy and will have a pantry sink. If you really want to go fancy, you’ll rework the pantry again to enable regular depth lower cabinets so that you can have a second dishwasher. Yes, sir. That would be fancy. And also useful if you entertain with any regularity. Which obviously you will once you have a bar sink. What I’m not on board with is an old table as an island. I have tried the regular table in the kitchen thing, and unless you actually eat at it regularly making it functional in that regard, it’s too low to comfortably chop/prepare things on. Looks good, but not very functional. Just saying.

    • Ha ha, typed my comment and then read the comment above. I think my “just saying,” was subliminally influenced.

  127. love your changes. i think kitchen islands are definitely dated and will soon go down the rabbit hole of what-were-we-thinking???, also built in and hell to change out. kitchen tables are see through, airier, mobile, and change outable. love option A with counter space on both sides of the stove, this is true luxury. love the blank wall with bowls and aprons on pegs. the counter in the pantry to rest the grocery bags on as you load the fridge, the bar sink in the pantry will change your life: dogs, flowers and babies can all be washed in it. go for it. take no substitutes. this is delightful.

  128. 1. LOVE the idea of the transom window — can’t have enough transom windows IMHO.
    2. LOVE the idea of moving the door from outdoors into the pantry into the wall facing the fridge.
    3. Sad that you don’t want the fridge to open into the kitchen space instead but happy you came to agree w/ me that some sort of counter is necessary in the pantry.
    4. LIKE the idea of a bar sink in the pantry because: ICE CUBES! Also a convenient place to wash your hands as you come in from the garden or whatever.
    5. Not completely feeling the final sketch up sketch – although this is a sketch not “final”. Concerns:
    a. As shown the edge of the fridge doors are too close to the wall and molding around the doorway into the kitchen. It would “feel” better to me if the fridge moved 6″-8″ to the right (as seen in that elevation sketch of the fridge wall.) Alternatively, have the hinges on the fridge doors on the left instead of the right. In fact that’s just plain what you ought to do. More space to move things in and out of the fridge that way.
    b. If you move the fridge to the right by several inches that makes the narrow “broom closet” even narrower. And the narrower that opening the trickier it is getting stuff in and out. One possible help: use a sliding “barn door” type door for the closet with the door sliding into the closet itself. I believe that might maximize the actual width of the door opening.
    6. Where is the Dog Feeding Station! In the pantry? How could this have been missed in the planning so far! (Another reason to have a sink in the pantry.)
    A sincere thanks for the opportunity to weigh in! Again, all the best to you, Linus & Mekko. Val

    • Oh, yes! Fridge swing can for sure change. There are pre-built models that you can use in this program (stuff like the wood stove, the range, the sink, the table are downloaded and put into the model as-is) so the fridge isn’t really representative of the real fridge. Just a location. :)

      Barn (or more likely pocket) door for the closet is something to consider, for sure!

      Dog feeding is TBD! They’ve never really had a “station” and don’t seem to mind, haha. Maybe on the floor to the left of the pantry door in the kitchen, just somewhere easy.

  129. p.s. in re the kitchen table being the right height: my grandmother was six feet tall. grandpa added hand carved six inch feet to the table she did all her kitchen work on for 50 years. it was awesome.

    • Aw! See, I’m only 5’7″ and have always actually liked working on surfaces lower than a countertop! I dream of custom 32″ high cabinets or something but then the stove is a weird height and maybeeeee that’s a little too far.

  130. I just wanted to add something about power outlets. I have nine of them in my kitchen, just hovering over my countertops: that’s six double outlets and one single. While nine outlets can seem a little excessive for a medium-sized kitchen like my own, I’ve never regretted it. I don’t own many electric kitchen gadgets (and no big one like a kitchenaid), but the ones I have get used pretty much everyday. They are all stuck in a drawer and it’s been a breeze to get them out, plug them in whichever outlet is the closest and then prep my breakfast while still not being completely awake.

    So, maybe think a bit about electricity in your kitchen. The questions I asked myself were:
    – how many appliances will be plugged to invisible outlets ? (me: stove + microwave + fridge + dishwasher)
    – how many appliances will be on the countertops, permanently plugged ? (me: none ! love counters I can play bowling on !)
    – how many appliances am I likely to have to plug simultaneously on a normal day ? (me: hand mixer, yoghurt machine, computer, phone)
    – how many appliances am I likely to have plugged on a hectic 10-friends-staying-at-home day ? (me: hand mixer, herb mixer, computer, phones x2, coffee machine, yoghurt machine, toaster)

    That the story of how I got to install 9 power outlets in my kitchen… I’m a freak…

    • Ohhhh yes, more is more with outlets in the kitchen! I won’t go crazy, but yeah…there will be OPTIONS! Old kitchen had two and it was not nice.

  131. I love the changes you made to the plans. It’s great to see how your plans progress. I think they are going very well – towards what you want and what you can have.

    Love that you added surfaces in the butler pantry. You are going to love it when you need more than two things from the fridge. I also think the kitchen looks less crowded with a smaller table than with the huge island. A great big door to the butler pantry looks perfect. And I give in, put the fridge where you want it, it is your home, it will make you happy, go for it. :)

    Keep us informed of what is going on in this adorable mind of yours, it is a delight to be able to live vicariously through you.

  132. I really like the new plan! Especially the idea of a comfy chair in the corner by the woodstove! And I think a table instead of an island will be great and give you the option of eating in the kitchen which I like. It seems like many people are concerned about storage but I think you have plenty (then again, I tend towards the minimalist side of owning stuff so…..) And you´re not really losing the storage space of the hutch, just relocating it. Can´t wait to see it all come together.

    • Agreed, I think I’m OK on storage! By my count there’s much more here than in the old kitchen, and that was totally fine. I can’t claim to be a minimalist in the slightest, but I’m good about not having any extra crap in the kitchen (unless it’s decorative, but that’s different).

  133. I LOVE the butler’s pantry and I think it will be great to have a little sink right by the door to outside! That way, if you’re doing yard work and are dirty you don’t have to trek all the way to the sink in the kitchen to wash your hands. Also, I prefer View A. The sink looks so unbalanced and unsymmetrical in View B. I really liked the huge island, but I think if you could find something that is old but similar and maybe just a tad bit smaller, that’d be really nice. I like the rich wood tone of the table, but it just seems a little small? Also, I wasn’t so sure about the fridge in the pantry before, but now I think it looks a lot better!

    • Yeah, I think the table will just be a matter of finding or making the right thing! Think of this one as a digital placeholder. :)

  134. The bar sink! I love it! Keeeeeeep iiiiiiiiit. (Not that you need to be convinced.)

    My apartment kitchen has about 18 inches of counter on either side of the stove, and it’s not enough. We have to store some small appliances there in a way that you don’t, but if our other counter weren’t just a few feet behind it, it would be even harder to manage. The extra space makes prep so, so much easier.

  135. Your plan is absolutely perfect and I think you’ve nailed it. I love the fridge in the butler pantry, it suits the age and style of the home better. The tiny closet next to it is wonderful – great place for brooms and mops and such. You’ve got to do the tiny bar sink. Coffee station out of the way is perfect. Can’t you just see cute mugs on that shelf just beckoning you to have a cup?

    I think in this case, main kitchen sink under a window may be over rated (wiping splashed all the time off is annoying). But I also think the stove on the other wall balances the kitchen better. And you may still be wiping the windows off either way. Grease and oil splatters… But I was actually thinking the stove may be better on that other wall if only so when you are using your adorable table, with maybe a few chairs (I love eat in kitchen tables) nobody will be sitting at the table and the oven door opening towards them. If it opens to the head of the table where no one is sitting, that’s not a problem. Just something to think about. You don’t have to put the sink under the window necessarily. But do think about how the oven door opens.

    Fantastic plans so far. I can’t wait to see what you do!

  136. I am with you 100% on your butler’s pantry, up to and including keeping the refrigerator in there and *not* in the kitchen at all. I LOVE the wall with the shelf for your pottery and I LOVE the idea of the pegs under it for aprons and whatnot. I think you have a winner here. Also, there are other options for venting than a range hood. We have a vent in our 1940’s house build right into the wall venting to the outside. In our case you open the door to activate it but I’ve also seen them with really attractive grillwork that you activate with a pull chain. In addition, in the case of your kitchen and the views, I think it makes total sense not to have the sink under the window.

  137. Keep the tiny bar sink! It’s great to have an extra sink for prep, coffee making etc!

  138. i love your original sink/oven positions. seriously. way better. i also love that you lost the huge hutch and swapped the island for a table. and the new exterior door rules. yes yes yes to a tiny sink! make your heart sing in this fancy space, you!

  139. I like it! Can I just tell you how jealous I am that you’ll have a little fireplace in your kitchen. My dream is to have a fireplace/woodstove in the kitchen with a couch or some big comfy chairs around it. Oprah had a giant fireplace in her kitchen with a whole sofa nook. I totes want to be like Oprah :) Alas, my galley kitchen is holding back my dreams of warm sofahood, but one day in a much bigger house than the one I currently reside. Anyways, fuck the haters, you do you!

  140. dear god you better keep that tiny bar sink. the new pantry option is so goddamn beautiful that i’m kind of mad about it. i agree that it would a travesty if you cut a whole in the wall & made a fridge niche. it would be weird & this is SO good. also, i still agree with you that the sink & oven look better in option a. i don’t understand with the sink/window obsession people have. i think the sink being under the window makes everything look off balance. anyway, i love watching how your crazy little mind works. i picture you trying to tell your friends all of this & they just stare at you blankly & so clearly annoyed… or does that only happen to me?

  141. This is just my favorite blog. You do you. It looks so great now. The butler’s pantry with sink and fridge is fancy as f*ck.

  142. I LOVE YOUR LITTLE SINK. You could get one of those weird antique super tiny ones!

    And if something spilled or burst open in your fridge, you don’t have to carry it dripping across your kitchen to get to a sink! Everyone who was apoplectic about the fridge being too far away could calm down.

  143. Daniel, I was one that scoffed at your refrigerator idea but I’ve been sold.
    I’d like to tell you a bit about my kitchen (same era as yours). We stripped it down to the studs and down to the dirt-to start. Removed an old staircase (with chestnut wood!!-reused on fireplace mantle). Put in a natural maple floor.
    I didn’t want any permanent cupboards at all so we bought 2 large beadboard cupboards-one for pantry, one for dishes. We salvaged an old extended porcelain sink. No counter tops. We have an old table with drawers (for silverware). This has worked out great for years as our only “countertop”. Not a lot of work surface but works for us. It’s a very large kitchen. We have a bakers cupboard, another smaller beadboard cupboard that holds pots and pans with microwave on top. Crockery to hold various items. I do have a window above the sink but enjoy the view. Additionally, we laid a block of tile by the back door to accommodate wet shoes etc. it has worked well too and easy to clean.
    I vote in your case no window above the sink especially since you have a dishwasher (I don’t). Love the butlers pantry with a place to put your cleaning things. Big thumbs up for little sink. I think if you put an island in the kitchen you have restricted yourself for any changes. Strongly suggest a table (with drawers if possible). I like the freedom to rearrange my kitchen when the mood strikes.
    Also, DO NOT put a wood pile in or near the house. Reaching into the woodpile (always wear gloves) is an adventure in creature discovery.
    I read good suggestions in the above postings. We went our own way (obviously) to the disapproval of many but have lived with the results for years and quite happy with our decisions.

  144. Love the kitchen and think it will look fab when it is complete. Also, a butler’s pantry is a dream! (Not for me in my 70s colonial, sadly). I love your absolute requirement to staying faithful to the house, yet thinking it out enough to make it good for today’s way of living.

    You make me LOL at work every time I read a post. Today, particularly at the Applebees comment and your offer to pause so we can pin the original kitchen. I can’t even.

  145. A sink in the pantry isn’t a luxury, it’s a necessity.
    I don’t see why the sink can’t go between the windows instead of under one of the windows. That (putting it under one window) destroys the symmetry and putting it further from the stove is inconvenient.

  146. I love tiny bar sink! And I love your butler’s pantry and hidden fridge. The only problem I had with the last version was that the fridge didn’t have counter space nearby, because where would you load stuff into and out of the fridge? But you solved it! And the solution is a butler’s pantry, which is ALWAYS a good idea! I love it.

  147. Holy smokes, how do you have 250+ comments on this already?!!! People have a LOT of feelings about your kitchen! LOL

    My two cents: Your revised kitchen layout sold me on your first layout as far as the stove and sink placement went. I also like the smaller table vs the island, because the idea of stepping on the hearth also bugged me.

    I also love putting the fridge in the other room and not cutting a hole in the wall. I agree, a recessed fridge would just look weird in your house (and also recessed can lights, with you there too).

    Laughed out loud at your comment about the second sink and the queen of England. I agree– you need it! And I love that you put it under a window. Hoping that view is better. And you’ll probably actually stand and look out of it while waiting impatiently for that first cup of sweet, sweet, life-giving caffeine.

    Pretty stoked about this! Though I do kinda miss the hutch (but the hutch also sort of blocked the sightline to the window and maybe you can add some of that aged wood texture back with the shelves or what you display on the shelves? IDK).

  148. Suddenly understanding the sheer volume of comments bc I have still more thoughts. Re: the butler sink placement, might it make more sense to move it to the left so it’s covered when the fridge door is open? It looks like you might be basically putting stuff in the sink with the fridge door open. And is there enough room to the right of the sink for the coffee maker, so you’re not looking at it from the kitchen? Plus it might be nice to have a view out that window from the kitchen rather than wall storage. Or are there zero fucks given on that front (or maybe it makes more sense to have that window spacing from the outside of the house)?

  149. I’ve never posted before, but read obsessively, and am finally realizing that you’ll never get my thoughts if I just send them psychically. So, here are my thoughts actually written out. Symmetry – can you put the sink between the windows and rotate the antique table (love) 90 degrees so it orients the other way? Gives you more room for prep behind the stove (I prefer it on the dining room wall – I think you could do something really beautiful there with shelves, decorative stuff, etc.). I think the tiny bar sink is groovy, but I’m wondering if you use that door to enter and exit your house? If so, I immediately thought MUD ROOM. I like the refrigerator in there – feels appropriately old-house, but MUD ROOM. If it were my kitchen (and it’s super annoying that it’s not), I would have the coffee station on the far left side of the sink wall. For what its worth, I have two sinks in my kitchen – and all I think about the prep sink is who oh why isn’t that just a countertop? I got swayed by the fanciness of two sinks. Rueing the day. And last thought, OMG wood stove is the cutest, coziest thing evah. Okay, I feel better. Feel free to toss out all thoughts from me and everyone else of course. Apparently, we don’t all live in your house with you? That’s weird.

  150. Not sure how your fire alarms are placed in your house, but my old stove vent was useless and we never used it, but we constantly set off our fire alarms. We replaced the vent with a quiet and efficient one and we no longer have that problem, unless I forget to turn it on right from the beginning. We’ve also considerably reduced the residual strong smells in our small house from cooking certain recipes.

  151. Go with your gut! It’s been working well for everything else in your house.
    Just one comment to the fridge: make sure you leave a big enough niche for it – air circulation being one concern, the other fitting in a new one at some point. (I would worry less about water lines for icemakers. They are the biggest source of fridge problems and repairs.) My tiny kitchen has a niche (former pantry space, I think) for the fridge – and only a 28 in. wide one will fit. When I had to replace it I had 2 choices available. And the new 28 in. was apparently slightly bloated. So when they tried to put it in the niche it got stuck half way. I had to have the drywall on one side of the niche removed and replaced with a thinner one so it would fit. And it still only barely does. Pretty sure this will kill it before its time due to lack of air circulation – and not being able to clean the coils or whatever. And no, a skinny Euro fridge wouldn’t have worked either because the niche is not HIGH enough. (good thing the idiot who did this was an architect, right??!!?)

  152. Daniel, this plan is perfect! I was in the rotate the fridge and put it in a niche team, but with your tweaking of the scullery plan, it works perfectly….I really want a scullery now!! That transom over the opening, yes! The little sink there, YES! Although I might be a clumsy lady, but I have a hard time not splashing water everywhere with tiny sinks, maybe a little appron sink could add a few inches and still work with the shallow cabinets. I think you will need a place to put your shoes-boots when you get in from the backyard, is there enough room behind the door? Although it means you will have to walk around the door to leave your shoes, so the idea of having an oppening in the shallow cabinets for footwear makes sense but I am not sure it would be such a great view from the kitchen into the scullery!
    Option A seems like the best visually and functinally.
    The pegs one of the commenter linked.. so pretty!
    The table in lieu of an island, yeah! It brings the warmth you loose from removing the hutch. A bench you could tuck under the table would be pretty and super functionnal.
    This kitchen is going to be so pretty, I’ve learned a lot about design with everything you’ve share with us, thank you!

  153. I LOVE the butlers pantry. I think it makes so much sense and does wonderful things for the space both visually and functionally. Plus,having the fridge in the pantry means that all of your cooking ingredients are in one place, this appeals to me. Also appealing? Two sinks. We have a sink in the butlers pantry and it gets used all the time. It’s incredibly useful

    I totally agreed with all of your points regarding the window/stove/sink placement. I was actually mentally listing them before I scrolled down and saw them. Just in terms of symmetry and work space, I think the stove between the windows works better and if you really don’t want a range hood, it makes much more sense to provide natural ventilation.

  154. I actually have my sink under my kitchen window and you are right there are constantly water and soap spots on the window I am cleaning up. Do what feels good and looks right to you, its your house. I have a range hood and rarely use it. I LOVE THE “Butler’s Pantry” idea. the extra counterspace will be awesome. One suggestion you may have already thought of is to change the door opening on the fridge to open the other way. More direct access to the countertops and fridge that way.

  155. Better than before, love the layout except one detail. I would put the sink between the two windows for balance and the dishwasher to the left so that it doesn’t open too close to the stove. You know, there are those times you have both open! Also, my sink is in front of a large window that comes down to the counter. I hate the view of the neighbors, so I don’t often open the shutters. I am forever cleaning said shutters, it’s a poor design but the overly large faucet doesn’t really get in the way of cleaning and/or plants, well, one plant in my case. The one good thing, there is plenty of natural light to see what you are doing, when needed. Also, shutters allow me to open slightly and direct task light down without the view. Whatever you decide to do, it will look great! I actually love not seeing the fridge in the room! Good call!

  156. I love the bar sink. It keeps your designated bartender out of your way when you’re hosting a big party.

    Can the fridge and the broom closet be swapped? In the era that your house was built, the ice box would be on an exterior wall so the ice man could fill it without coming into your home.

  157. How much time do people spend at the sink that they need to be in front of windows? I’d put the sink between them. This may have been brought up before…

  158. And, put a rocking chair in the corner.

  159. Ok, so I would put a sink in the butler’s pantry as well and this is why…..you come into the butler’s from your backyard with your arms full of freshly cut blooms, put them in your teeny, tiny sink, reach into your fabulously shallow cabinets (because who wants to get on their knees to dig into deep dark cabinets!!) for a vase, fill said vase with water from your teeny, tiny sink and create an incredible bouquet? You are Martha Fucking Stewart, revel in it.

    • This scenario makes me grinch smile. I also think you need a sink in your upstairs laundry room for when the little tag insists that you let things soak overnight. The pottery will look so great on the open shelves!

  160. Thank God that, in these crazy times in which we live, someone is taking a stand against recessed lighting! I hate it and had it removed from my kitchen. Nothing makes an old house look more anachronistic that recessed lighting, in my opinion. Keep fighting the good fight!

  161. A) The new pantry layout is awesome. I feel like people don’t like putting a fridge outside of the main kitchen because you only ever see that in poorly-converted houses. I’ve definitely lived more than one place with the fridge under the hall stairs or whatever. But your kitchen is not going to give off crappy-converted-house vibes, it’ll be clean and lovely and very custom. I bet once everyone sees the completed kitchen, they’ll be on board with the fridge placement.
    B) What about keeping the cabinet return to the fireplace, and adding a coordinating radiator cover to the other side of the fireplace? You could build the radiator cover to have the same, like, visual weight as the cabinets, so the two sides of the fireplace are more balanced. You won’t be able to see your lovely radiator, but you could gain more counter space there and I feel like the kitchen looks more kitcheny with the cabinet turn to the right of the fireplace. Especially with using the table instead of the island, and the fridge being out of sight, this room might not end up looking very much like a kitchen! Just a thought.

  162. I love it! I like A PERSONALLY. It just feels more balanced and symmetrical overall with the oven between the windows/sink centered on wall. I love tiny bar sink and I think how you rotated the pantry works so well. Its makes it feel more flowey and you gain back some cabinet space that you lose with the island & hutch.
    You could also hang oven mitts on the shaker pegs.

  163. “ALSO CAN YOU ALL RELAX BECAUSE THIS SINK IS UNDER A WINDOW? I DID IT FOR YOU. Kinda. Not really.”

    Reenactment of reaction:

    Hehe.

    Hehehe. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    I don’t understand why ALL blogs are not written like this? If you wrote a blog about lettuce I’d read it religiously. Obviously you’d write passionate posts where you’d grow various forms of lettuce and end with “What do you guys think? Lettuce discuss in the comments!”

    I’ll see myself out.

    Ps. Team Tiny Sink!!!!

  164. I LOVE LOVE LOVE your plan! So fancy! So Martha! Flowers & herbs brought in right from the garden and rinsed in your tiny perfect sink – with a cute or industrial spray hose (perhaps on the right of the sink to get a bit more depth for the sink?) And a dutch door out to the garden – you need a dutch door! (does that go with your house?)

    The pantry is the perfect place for all the ugly appliances – no need to sully the gorgeous lines and design of the kitchen. I especially hate the worship of the microwave (and prefer to live without one) so having a place to keep it out of sight is excellent. You might find you use it far less once you finally get a seriously functional stove. It seemed obvious to me that you primarily use the front door to your house, so you have no need for a mudroom back here. It will be the perfect staging area for those backyard parties you will have some day soon!

    You know best how you like to cook in a kitchen, so your desire for that run of counter on either side of the stove seems crucial and perfect for you. I love the idea of the table in the middle to use and to seat guests. I know you have that lovely dinning room, but the party is always in the kitchen before and after the meal is served.

    My only kooky thought (and I have no idea if this makes sense based on how you want the outside of the house to look) is that it would look nice to see the pantry window line up with the new doorway into the pantry? And that way the plumbing for the sink would be closer to the plumbing that’s already there? I realize that you have a ton of windows happening in the kitchen already, but with the transom from the transplanted door, it might be nice to let light in from that side, and have a bit of a view into the garden. Of course looking at lovely things on shelves is something I totally appreciate also, but I just thought I’d put it out there. Because I know you need MORE thoughts on this project. I do so enjoy you sharing all of your thoughts about this, and the added details of the sketchups.

  165. You do you. At the end of the day, it’s your house! I like all of the changes that the butler’s pantry is legit-swoony. Excited to see this all come together.

  166. I like the tiny sink. Especially since it will be near an exterior door. Sometimes you’re outside and need to scrub your hands (more than just a rinse from the hose) and it’s nice to not troop all through your house to do so.

  167. Ack! No no no! Please don’t move the sink to under the window. Put the sink between the two windows. Perfect! :D

    I really like the island you had (just a bit smaller would work better)–the shelves were really nice and functional and seemed as if it would mimic the cabinetry in the rest of the kitchen.

  168. I LOVE IT ALL! There is something so liberating about designing a space for yourself, for your own lifestyle and habits and being like “THIS IS ME, THIS IS HOW I WANT TO LIVE”.

    We’re currently re-doing a bathroom shower, and everyone says I have to use small tiles (because of slope towards drain) and I’ve been throwing tantrums because the feeling of small tiles and so many grout lines under my feet will annoy the hell out of me every day, and no one gets it! So maybe I’ll just get a tub after all…

  169. 1. I love tiny bar sink, too. Over the years you will bless yourself repeatedly for adding it. I cannot tell you how many time I have wanted to shout at my husband that HE COULD DO WHATEVER HE IS DOING AT THE KITCHEN SINK EQUALLY WELL AT THE LAUNDRY ROOM SINK AND NOT BE IN MY WAY WHILE I AM MAKING DINNER. Whew. In other words, a second sink is a godsend and necessary for household equanimity.
    B. Faucet for the bar sink: I just bought a new faucet for our kitchen https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HB97LKO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    We haven’t installed it yet (husband had knee replacement surgery last month and cannot crawl/kneel/crouch yet), but ya know how you can judge the quality of a piece of equipment just by handling it? This one rocks! The handle works smoothly and all the fittings are metal, no nasty plastic to fail in a couple years. And it was $57! instead of $100-200 and up. It got rave reviews from previous purchasers, which I why I picked it over other similar ones. It would add extra functionality to that bar sink.
    iii. Shallow lower cabinets FTW! Standard 24″-deep base cabinets are a PITA, unless you spend the extra money to have roll-out shelves. You may be young and supple now, but there will come a time when getting onto your knees to fetch that thing at the back is, to say the least, problematic.
    c.. I was going to suggest that you free up some floor space by the wood stove for a comfy chair, but you beat me to it. And a dog bed? Sheer genius! Because you know you want the pup near by, right? I would suggest a platform rocket — comfy, compact, perfect for your vintage house.
    IV. I vote for a scaled-down island with storage underneath. But go with the table for now if you wish. Like you said, easily swapped out later if you decide you need more storage. Back when I remodeled the kitchen in our last house, a section of lower counter to be used as a baking center was the rage — easier to knead dough on a lower surface, I guess. That is the only reason I could see for having a table-height surface.
    5. Open storage under the sink for shoes, boots, etc — yes!

    I love your writing and your humor and your ideas!

  170. is there going to be a door to the butler’s pantry?

    can i recommend a POCKET DOOR (assuming it is possible)? i know they’re a pain and all that, but it might be nice to slide a door closed to the pantry, in case you want to hide some mess. or if you want to use it as an impromptu mudroom from the outside?

    maybe a frosted glass door?

    i admit, i have a weird love for pocket doors and sorta don’t understand why every door isn’t a pocket door. except bathroom doors in hotels. those should be real doors and not pocket/barn doors.

    anyway. everything looks amazing. i totally support the sink on the wall, because i have a sink in front of my giant old window, and it means i just stare at the drops of water that are thrown up on the glass.
    however, i have only a non-venting range hood, and wish i had a venting one. because my dogs hate fire alarms, and i kinda sorta burn stuff like once a month. and the non-venting hood does not help. it just sprays smelly oil up in the air so my whole house smells like sauteed chicken. for days.

  171. I was so surprised to see the new arrangement and thrilled that a table ended up in the middle instead of the island. I am going to pretend it was because you saw my post about my friend from Nova Scotia having a round table in her layout. So having said that… I did say round and let me make the case for that again. But before I do let me qualify myself. I have a table in my current eat in kitchen area that is rectangular. I have two round tables and one other rectangular table wrapped in moving blankets and shrink wrap in my garage and I am refinishing yet rectangular table. So I never have just any table, it has to be just the right one for the space. Here is why you should have a round table for your space. When you are moving from the sink to the stove you don’t want a corner of a table between you and the stove. I guarantee you someone will bang their hip/leg on the edge of that table.

    Love the new design with the butlers pantry and trust me, that second sink is going to get used so much, you have no idea. You could even set it up as a bar tending station if you were having a party. Just put a table in front of the door opening and voila, drinks, sink, fridge, its all right there.

  172. Look at all the comments! People have opinions on kitchens. I see how you think about it all day long.
    I love the pantry / larder / scullery. And tiny bar sink will bring you so much joy. Also, I hate range hoods. People make them so giant, the focal point of their kitchens. I live in an old house which has never had one. And my kitchen smells fine. Who are these people that are stinking up their houses?
    As far as the window over the sink, the view isn’t so great out that window, so your Option A is so much better. Do what makes you happy. And invite us all over for coffee when it’s done!

  173. Ah, I like this more than the last idea (both are beautiful) but I think I would return stove and sink to the Option A positions. Are you right or left handed? I prep the majority of my food by my sink (washing vegetables, hands, etc) but as a right-handed person my work flow is from left to right. I assume you’ll have a few dishes to do by hand and I would naturally want to have them drying on the right bit of counter. With the Option B positions, that gets all messed up and honestly stressed me out a bit thinking about how I’d cook with that layout (helpful, as I daydream about renovating my own kitchen and things are good to know).

    I don’t really have strong feelings about the fridge (well, I do — I think fridge niches are terrible, but that’s not really in question here) and love the butlers pantry. I say YES on the bar sink and coffee station. We have a Bonavita drip coffee maker and I love it more than almost anything in my house (living things excluded). Would you have space under the sink for a small trash can to dispose of the grounds? It would make me crazy to have to walk them somewhere else.

    Hmmm…random other thought. I think pulling out the hutch is a good idea — I liked it in the previous design, but I think with the table AND the wood stove AND the hutch you’d veer into a certain degree of preciousness that maybe doesn’t fit the house? I don’t know. I’m sure you’d make it work, either way.

  174. Hi Daniel,

    It’s been fun reading about your thought process as you prepare for the reno. I recently redid most of my 1930s cottage and repeated a mantra constantly that got me though (and I still love every decision made): there is more than one way to make something beautiful. I think we get stuck when we seek the one, true, perfect path when there are really multiples.
    For the record, I’m on the hood vent team (cheap ones aren’t worth the bother, but good ones can make an amazing difference in how clean your kitchen stays) and option A sink-stove team. My farmhouse sink is on a wall with three high windows–great morning light, evening privacy, and no view of the neighbor’s house and driveway.
    Can’t wait to see your progress!

  175. I really like the whole concept and feel!
    I actually think the sink under the window looks weird – it feels unbalanced. And, who says you need to have a sink under a window? It was a thing when women were stuck washing dishes and cooking meals all day. They could watch their husbands and children frolic gayly in the yard while they silently cried at the sink. (You know, before Xanax or Trazodone.)
    I am in favor of the vent hood. A built in hood that’s tiled with something vintage and fabulous could blend well with a traditional kitchen. I have a feeling after cooking bacon for the first time and subsequently spending the next four days smelling like sizzled fat, you’ll be glad there are wires in the wall. ;-)
    Speaking of sizzled fat, I also think you’ll be wiping grease off that little sconce above the stove. I’m not a huge fan of it visually either. It and it’s mate seem a little off balance, too. I don’t have a suggestion for an alternative, though. Pendents over the windows?
    I don’t love lamp. But, I love tiny bar sink. I like the whole butler pantry scheme. Who doesn’t like the idea of having a whole room dedicated to the hired help preparing your cocktails and canapés? And, I like the hidden fridge design; especially since you’re aiming for a more traditional look.
    All that said, you have great taste and I’m sure whatever you come up with will be lovely! I’m only giving my opinion because you asked for it. :-)

  176. OPTION B. No range hood. Move the sink a smidge to the right so it sits between the windows. Who are these people gazing out their windows while washing dishes?! I have a window directly above my kitchen sink that looks out on my backyard, and I have never—literally, not once, ever—directed my gaze upward while washing dishes… If I did, I’d slice my hand on the knives I’m washing (?!)

    Yes to tiny bar sink—for all the reasons you listed, as well as having an easy-to-access hand washing station from outside, and for filling that mop bucket in the closet, filling dog bowls (?), etc.

  177. Totally on Team Bar Sink and totally on Team A with looong counters around your stove and the sweet little shelf above your sink. Who cares if you have a sink under a window if your sink under pretty objects and even some hung art is much better to look at than your telephone pole.

  178. I’m also in Kingston (uptown). I just found your blog a few weeks ago when I started re-doing my own kitchen and you’ve given me so many great ideas. I love your writing style.
    I have the original butler’s pantry in my house (sans tiny bar sink) and I love the tiny sink idea, I agree with others that it will make the fridge’s location seem more intentional; also on team floor plan A (but with the wood table instead of the island).

  179. Yay! Yay! Yay! So much fun, what colors are you thinking?

  180. I’ve read through what I think are most of the comments and I’ve not seen the issue of the wood stove addressed. Because the construction of our home is odd (built in the mid-1940’s, a long story) it’s necessary for us to supplement our oil furnace with a wood stove in our living room. It’s a relatively small stove but generates a lot of heat. We must be careful of furniture placement and traffic patterns. Depending on how you plan to use your stove you will also need to consider where you store wood in your kitchen. We bring into our house several armloads of wood every day so we have a large oval galvanized tub. Even if you have only small fires you will need a wood box or tub because it’s just too damned inconvenient to run outside every time you need a stick of wood.

    Which leads me to the issue of bringing wood from your back yard. If you have frequent fires you will come to appreciate easy access from your wood pile into your house. You haven’t mentioned where you might locate said wood pile in your yard. There is also the issue of where you would purchase your wood and will it be cut to fit the size of your likely small stove. Parenthetically, if you’re going outside daily to get wood for your stove you might as well take the coffee grounds to the compost pile. ;)

    You mentioned that you know little of wood stoves. If you are set on having one I suggest you ask friends and acquaintances who might have one to give you pointers. Your state’s land-grant university supports county extension agents who should have good information on wood-burning stoves. They likely can also help you with local sources for all aspects wood stove. Of course there is always the world wide web.

    Wood stoves are a lot of work, even small ones. If all this seems too much there is always the option of a gas stove that looks like a wood-burner. They are attractive, safe, efficient, and you don’t have the mess of wood to deal with. And burning wood is messy. Charming and romantic, but messy.

    Sorry to pile on more decisions but this is rather central to your plans/dreams for your kitchen.

    PS: FWIW, if it were my kitchen I would put the stove between the windows and have a hood for lighting and exhaust. I’ve spent too many southern summers in un-vented kitchens. Open windows just don’t quite do it.

  181. Ever since I have seen the kitchen plans with the fridge in the separate space I thought – butler’s pantry!
    Also, I grew up in a small country in Europe where every kitchen had a table in the middle. Chair or two also. Working space, eating space.
    Where else would your boyfriend drink his coffee while you are whipping up an omelet for you to share. Surly he would not be in the dining room. Alone. Nice of you to mention him.

  182. Have you seen this kitchen? http://pin.it/EVqjWzK (tried to find an original source for you, but this was the closest I could come). I love it so much, in part, because it doesn’t have a hood and the island looks more like a table.

  183. Daniel,

    How about an under counter fridge either to the left of the stove for eggs, what not or to the right of the sink….

  184. I love it. I love this new plan. It feels so right for the house. It’s so cute. I am even loving the stove between the window and the sink along the wall plan.

  185. If you put the sink between the windows, a pot rack over the sink would work really well. I have a large oval pot rack over my kitchen sink, have had it for over 30 years and love it. It’s really practical and adds a ton of character.

  186. Oh, so much better! Leaving that hutch wall mostly open and free of stuff gives you room for a kitchen table – with plenty of space to walk around in now – and you will love having a table in there. Stick with table height – you can always switch to a counter-height thing later, but you won’t want to – you will love having your kitchen table. And leaving that wall more or less empty makes for good traffic flow from the dining room into the pantry.

    And so smart to move the pantry doorway so you can have a bigger corner by the radiator to put to more uses – the whole room looks more balanced that way, too. And I love shaker pegs, and think they will look great and be useful in your kitchen.

    Stick with the more balanced Option A. While I like looking out my current kitchen window, as I seem to spend a lot of time at the sink even with a dishwasher, I’m 5 stories up and looking at mostly sky and trees. I’ve also had two really narrow galley kitchens with the window at the short wall end, and I loved being in those kitchens, too – you have the window right to your side to provide light while at the sink, and you have no cupboards in your head space there too, it’ll be really nice. I seem to spend more time at the sink also because I need to prep and cut stuff there, as I’ve never had the generous space by the stove to prep there – you will love having that extra space on the window wall by the stove to prep.

    Other good things about Option A – I also think it is better to have the sink closer to the fridge – I end up taking most thing (like fruits and veggies) to the sink first to wash them, and only then to the stove. Another thing that is good is to have the sink nearer the dining room – when you (or your guests) want to clear plates from dinners in the dining room to the kitchen, is is nice to not to have to walk through the kitchen past the stove (with all the dirty pots) to deposit them by the sink for later cleanup and dishwasher loading.

    Incorporate a drawer or two right next to the stove for spices – I so like having them in little racks in a not deep drawer right next to the stove, just under the countertop.

    What’s not to love about you new butler’s pantry? Put in the biggest sink that will fit, and not a shallow one. I love the suggestion of soapstone in there – if not for the sink, at least for the countertop – it doesn’t need to match the counter in the kitchen. The window in there is a great idea! It doesn’t need to be opposite the pantry doorway – I didn’t really like the exit door there, and like this pantry better – and I’m betting the angle of the pantry window, especially with the large pantry doorway, will line up perfectly to send light toward the wall where your sink will be in Option A.

  187. I love it all, especially the tiny bar sink! Do it all exactly the way you want because you have a vision coming from your heart. When we follow our guts without wussing out it all becomes a cohesive and fabulous entity that is representative of ourselves. Go for it.

  188. Well done! If you’re keeping score, I’m another who was on team niche but am now a convert.
    My problem before was not that the fridge was so far away, but that it seemed like you forgot to put a fridge in the kitchen so bunged it in a cupboard around the corner. But now it seems like it’s in an intentional space. So nice. I think you’d be stupid not to put in tiny bar sink :)
    I also totally see what you mean about option A. It just works. I don’t really like the sink by itself anywhere on that long bench, it looks too piddly. And the stove squished in on the end – thumbs down. Stick to option A.
    Are US benches deep? Our architect suggested making our longest bench deeper than the standard here (so 70cm/28in) which on a long bench adds a really good amount to the work space and gives you awesome deep drawers underneath. I loved it so much I did the same to our new laundry.
    Maybe a square antique table would fit well? Don’t worry about the height difference, it’s not an issue. Tuck a stool or two under the table for when you’re sitting and prepping.
    Look forward to seeing developments!

  189. Love it! And yay to getting rid of the island and replacing with an actual table! Confession time – I have a LOATHING of islands. They’re big and ugly and immovable. And they will date a kitchen like no one’s business. And you can’t eat at them because you can’t get your knees under unless you put chairs all down one side and all face the same direction and how is that sociable? Did I mention I hate islands? YES to a lovely table you can sit around with friends and bake at and which looks good and in keeping with the house and won’t date.

    • Wow! I thought I was the only person in the country who doesn’t like islands…for the very reasons you cite. Also b/c my spouse and I like to sit across from each other. We play games during lunch, we spread out the daily paper at breakfast, at parties guests sit around the table and everyone can reach the snacks in the center. I can replace the table w/o leaving traces on the floor. I can sit a baby up to it in a highchair which isn’t possible at an island that’s high like a bar. There are so many more reasons to prefer a table than an island. Which is not to say that I don’t see a place for those little islands on wheels — they are so useful as adjunct counters. But they don’t replace an old-fashioned kitchen table!

    • In my last house we had a huge kitchen. I put our big farm table up on casters so it was at counter height. They were easy to install and to remove when we moved. You’re right about the versitility. I’m miss that kitchen.

  190. I sent you a private message on Facebook with a picture. Perhaps more utilitarian than cute?

  191. Love all the changes. The butler’s pantry makes the refrigerator feel like it has purpose where before thought felt like an afterthought. The Bar sink is inspired, and I love it.
    On the other hand, the main sink bothers me. I know you’re supposed to look out a window, but the sink in my apartment faces a wall and it doesn’t bother me. BUT! You have the opportunity to put the sink between the two windows which should be nice and symmetrical and give you the opportunity to look diagonally outside the windows. You will still get directional light and the opportunity to see the world go by, and not have to worry about seeing your faucet from outside. Seriously. Go into the kitchen stand between the two windows and step back 2.5 feet. It will change your mind and will be well worth it.

  192. I LOVE your new pantry layout! Tiny bar sink? You go, Daniel! As someone who spills on the way to the fridge myself, I am totally down with it. As far as the kitchen island/table goes, have you thought about a smaller island (say 4′ instead of 6′) on castors would fit the bill? You’d still have storage and extra counter, it would take up less space, and you could move it where you needed it for big meal prep or cocktails. And, finally, the sink/stove placement. I was originally in the sink-under-the-window-camp, but can see your point now that you’ve explained your reasoning. As you said, this is YOUR kitchen. Make it what you want!

  193. Tiny bar sink, held to the yeah! Get one of those tiny cutting boards for cutting up drink garnish. How cute. What about a wine fridge?

  194. Like the table in lieu of an island. Like the full wall shelf and shaker pegs. Like the open space around the chimney. Not a fan of the sink under the left window. Symmetry is all in the eye of the beholder and placing it under the left hand window makes my eye twitch. So I’d be all for placing it between the windows. Solves water splashing on the glass, and allows for a rotation of art above it to gaze at when using the sink. It also shortens the distance you’d have to carry full pots of boiling water when needing to drain vats of pasta. The less than stellar view would be solved by either plain and simple cafe curtains on the lower sashes only (love to see the sky, even if crossed by wires), or adding antique patterned glass in place of the clear. The light remains, but you gain privacy and negate the eyesores. Whatever you decide will be wonderful for you.

  195. I thought the sink facing the wall was fine, but this looks great, too! It all looks good to me, and I think it will be so fun for you to have. Yay : ) !

  196. Where will you get the cabinetry?

  197. I really like our new version kitchen design. Wanted to chime in with two points:
    1. Downdraft ranges generally disappoint. I have a Jennair downdraft range that doesn’t work properly b/c the downdraft is a design flaw — the venting action is too low to be effective. My neighbor has a vent that hides at the back of the stove; at the touch of a button it rises about 10 or 12 inches and has a powerful venting action. Works great, and they don’t have to look at it except when it’s in use. In their kitchen, it looks like a 2-3 inch wide decorative strip at the back of the stove. I want one for my next kitchen!

    2. Electrical outlets should be ALL OVER, and double/triple what you think you need. I like the idea of having a coffee station in the butlers pantry, and wiring a spot for the microwave in there. Recommend that you plan a charging station for phones, ipads, laptops, drills, whatever in there also. So convenient! And you could hide all those gadgets behind a door, or build a box for them, or something.

    3. Sink in the butlers pantry will be really useful for filling water glasses when you entertain.

  198. I love the tiny bar sink idea….but don’t dig the fridge outside the kitchen. Rented a place like that and it was a pain in the ass to keep going into the other room to get stuff out of the fridge.
    BUT….it’s your house so you can hang the fridge from the ceiling if you want to!!!

  199. One of my favorites apartments had a butlers pantry and housed shelves, a counter, and THE SINK! I loved that you could have a dirty dish / prep mess and just SHUT THE DOOR!

  200. Friends of ours just built a massive, fancy house with a butler’s pantry. It doesn’t have a sink, but I’ve thought all along that it would benefit from one. (I think they did too, but plumbing that area wasn’t easy.) conversely, they have a beverage corner in the kitchen that has a small sink maybe 5 feet from the regular sink – so freaking useful! They entertain a lot and it gets used a lot. If it’s an easy installation you won’t regret it!

    And I like the fridge placement :)

  201. You crack me up. Big, huge, enormous vote,”yes” for tiny bar sink. Do it.

  202. Coffee station? Tiny awesome bar sink? Hiding fridge so it won’t ruin the historic kitchen vibes? Yes!
    I happen to have a sink that faces a wall because if there was a window, it would face into my neighbor’s backyard. I’m not wild about the wall, but a window might be awkward. I have become used to it, except that It’s a huge expanse of empty wall that is screaming for shelving. I am having analysis paralysis about the shelves, which is why 9 years into owning my house, the wall is still bare. Anyway, my point is that if you don’t need a window because all you can see are trash cans and asbestos, then you should put the sink where you want it. I don’t even think about the lack of a window anymore.

  203. Here’s another vote for the sink location in plan A. Just get the dishes done and move on! Love the pantry with fridge and bar sink. When my family was home, it was nice to be able to shoo them away to another sink while I was working. Room for a chair near the stove: perfect! Trust your gut. and as you have proven over and over, nothing HAS to be forever. Changes can be made. Bravo!

  204. Hi, i am following your blog for years, but never comment. I love what you do!
    But as someone who cooks a for family and friends and daily and is totally into pretty but functional i do have to weigh in here: first off, if you don’t want a hood over the stove (i don’t have one either), you want the stove next to the windows as you suggested. even with a hood. stuff burns, it just happens and next to the door it will all go into the entire house. as well, you do want your sink next to the dinning room door, as when you come back with empty plates you want the sink right there. no matter if the beautiful hutch is gonna be in the kitchen or dining room – dragging clean dishes all the way around the kitchen island is just heavy and well – a drag. put the dishwasher and sink as close to where the dishes are stored as possible. believe me, it makes daily life and hosting soooo much easier.
    the one thing that can look super cool and is most certainly hyper useful is one of those faucets over the stove…fits the age of the house and oh well, they are just amazing. less dragging pasta and soup pots, etc. – then the distance between stove and sink is irrelevant too. Obviously dependent on plumbing possiblities.
    i am totally with you on leaving the fridge in the mudroom. the widened door will make that not just feel great but functional too. just one thing, maybe leave a space under the counter in the mudroom for a kitchen cart. store your onions and things you need for cooking regularly at the bottom and on top you can place anything that just came out of the fridge and needs to go to the kitchen counter. that way you don’t have to do that trip back and forth all the time when cooking up a meal. and you got that little bit more counter space when needed that you wanted with the kitchen island. thinking vintage bar cart gone kitchen cart!

  205. Geez, I don’t check you website for a week and you post something and a million people comment already! Crazy! Anyway, from a short perusal of the comments, it turns out that A) Half of those million people are also named Sara, B) Put your sink wherever you damn well please, and C) Butler’s pantry/scullery/larder FTW! And I agree. Put your sink wherever you like, window be damned, and I am so pleased with the revamping of the entry door. That new layout just sings. I also like the idea of the table instead of the island, looks much better, although you might want to try to find or create a counter-height table to save your back. Some fun salvaged turned wood and a butcher block, maybe? I dunno. You’re the genius.

    Anyway, keep on keepin’ on! Gonna be great, no matter what you do, since as I mentioned before, You=Genius.

  206. Daniel, I love your plan for the butler’s pantry and I think you should do whatever you want in your kitchen. After all, you will be the one using it, so make it yours and put the sink wherever you want.Good luck!

  207. Option A, we need it back! I’ve never regretted a sink that has wall behind it, but I do think my stove should have had more prep space around it. And it already has lot’s of it. That said, do whatever you feel like doing.

  208. Tiny Bar Sink!! YES!!
    The whole pantry looks great, including fridge. Do what you think will make you happiest.

  209. I am so loving watching this plan come together! It makes me think differently about my own kitchen, which is probably part of the genius you work with your clients. Two thoughts:
    1) I love the bar sink idea. The space is big enough that you will be glad you have it.
    2) Our house is 100 years old, so all the windows are huge and low. Putting the kitchen sink under the window was never an option. After ten years of washing tons of dishes (we have a dish washer, but like to do pots and plastic by hand) I can tell you I have never one time thought I was missing out on a window over the sink. It is funny how people think it is gospel. If you are really working on those dishes you’re not looking up any way.

  210. Being somewhat obsessed with butler’s pantries I am loving this plan. Absolutely go for the tiny bar sink!
    This is my first kitchen with one & I use it all the time. Also it does make you feel fancy. I agree with keeping the fridge in the pantry & having that counter running along the wall. I don’t like cluttered counters so the more you can store in the pantry the better. I didn’t weigh in the first time about the sink/stove placement debate but I like your first plan (A) with the stove centered between the two windows & the sink facing the wall. I just feels more balanced to me and full disclosure, I have my stove between two windows (but my sink is opposite it in my island). I will add my 2 1/2 cents about the range hood. I use mine a lot & since it’s stainless steel & commercial style I consider it a cool feature & was really excited to have one since I had only had the ones that are built into the microwave over the stove & I really hate that look. I really love how you always factor the age & style of your home into all your design decisions correcting the dubious decisions that were made in the past. Your house is lucky to have found you!

  211. Just a couple of quick comments for the moment. While shelves over the counter in your pantry seem like a good idea, my guess is that you will be banging your head against the lower shelf from time to time, especially since the cabinets have a shallow depth. I have the bruises to prove my statement!

    Secondly, having a range hood will also save your walls and ceiling from mildew and peeling paint, if you plan on boiling water for pasta, veg, etc. It’s shocking how much steam is produced and just how destructive it can be … again, personal experience proves this.

  212. I like where you are going. Kitchens in these houses are never easy. There really is not a great deal lot space, and keeping the symmetry outside with windows does indeed make layout on the inside difficult. I think you’ve done LOTS of good thinking and the kitchen should reflect the way you see yourself using it.

    The butler’s pantry is a genius solution to may of your problems. I don’t think you will regret having the refrigerator there. It’s just not that far away.

    If you see yourself hosting friends a great deal, the bar sink is genius for so many reasons, including a mother prep space for veggies and such. If at all possible, I don’t you’d be disappointed in the end if you got a sink that could support another garbage disposal in there. It is my experience that every kitchen/pantry sink.

    If I have one concern about what you’ve conceived here, it’s your placement of and type of lighting. There is nothing worse than food prep without appropriate lighting. I would talk to a lighting specialist before your decide to talk through potential issues (plus you have no place for art!)

    You are doing good work here.

  213. big JAY to exchanging the island for the table. love! also love the butler’s pantry… it just occured to me that you could also turn the fridge and hide it behind a period door. Like you have these built-in fridges with the door attached to a kitchenfront so you won’t distinguish it from the rest of the kitchen (don’t know if it’s a thing in the US :-/). guess you could “glue” your old fridge’s door to an old door? just brainstorming. two old doors on that wall instead of the larger one you’re planning right now?

  214. I love this part of your blog so much! If you’re going to do the butlers pantry with the fridge then I feel like the sink is very necessary. I’m still a little partial to the fridge facing into the kitchen but I’m not so sure that it goes with the design so my vote is for the butlers pantry with the sink, I just love that and think it’s useful for many more things. Potting a plant, cleaning out the fridge, filling a mop bucket, craft type projects.. Endless needs for that sink since you are a diy kind of guy! I do like the sink and stove switched or with the sink under the window but not necessarily because I think you need a window to look out while doing the dishes but just simply for the layout and for me because I like that larger expanse of counter that you get. I’m not a huge hood fan and I hope you do find another option for that. Otherwise I think this is going to be the most epic kitchen ever!

  215. I may be against the crowd on the ‘fridge in butlers pantry’ idea, but I grew up living in a very old house (1842) and we had the fridge in a butler’s pantry and it worked fine. The layout was actually remarkably similar to yours, almost mirrored exactly right down to the old farmhouse table in the middle, and we liked keeping things separate in the butler’s pantry. Ours had a row of cabinets with a built in desk under the window (rather than a separate sink) and my mom used to use the desk to pay bills and such – my dad had his office out of our house and mom did the bookkeeping so it was more useful than you would think.

    Do what works for you.

  216. Wish I had time to read all the comments – but darn – work gets in the way. I’m loving your new butlers pantry with the tiny sink :) I love everything you do, but I’m not loving the off center kitchen sink under that window. And your kitchen is a nice size, but we aren’t talking palatial here – I wouldn’t worry about the distance between the stove & the sink. Can you carry a pasta pot of water to the sink to be drained? If so, you’re fine!
    With each redraw, you are coming up with better & better idea’s but you’re going to drive yourself insane. Stick to the history of the house & you’ll be happy.

  217. Love it all. High five!

  218. Butler’s Pantry = fancy happy goodness. I have two ideas, backed by my own clients’ feedback, to up your fancy factor without spending much. First, someone else beat me to suggesting an insta-hot faucet in your bar sink. DOOOO IT! I’ve had four different families rave like lunatics about how much they love theirs, and it’s like $150. Pretty sure you could install it yourself. Cups of tea on demand, pots of water boiling in one minute, fancy pour over coffee for when the Queen pops in for a scone. Cup-o-noodles!

    Second, an under-counter compost bin. Blanco makes one that I own and adore which is round, stainless, and is made to sit flush into a hold cut into the counter (they even include the template for DIYers). The lid is also stainless, and sits flush, so when it’s closed you can use it like more counter space. The bucket lifts out and can be dishwashed. It kills the cabinet space right below it, but as an active composter, I find it massively useful.

  219. So many comments so I’m not sure if I am repeating what anyone else has said but here are my two Canadian cents (not worth much to your dollar):
    A) looooove the bar sink and butler pantry
    B) don’t hate the fridge in the pantry but maybe you could have one of those mini European fridges that blends in with the cabinets to store really frequently used things hat are helpful at the stove? I don’t know your life but that would appeal to me
    C) totoally orefer an antique table over the huge island. Seems more authentic for an old house with a wood stove and you can eat at it for casual meals
    D) don’t think the sink needs to be at the window without a view.
    E) have you thought of putting the stove between the two windows? It’s more symmetrical and both windows could be open to provide ventilation and if you want a good fan later you could sit between the windows? Maybe that hood fan would ruin the aesthetic but I don’t see why the stove has to be under a window either.

    I’m super excited that you are posting more frequently!!!!

  220. My fraction of a two cents worth? Why have a pot filler when you have to haul the pot somewhere to drain it anyway? Cold pasta water is craved by my dogs but mostly goes in my compost bin. Water can be expensive and pasta is a big user so it needs to pull its weight.
    Bar sink can’t be too small or you’ll never fit a bucket under it. How about a bucket filler in the mop closet?
    Compost can be collected inside but you’ll need a trap for the fruit flies.
    Winter time compost collecting could be done in a plastic bin just outside the back door.
    Glad to push you one bit closer to 400 comments! Will this be a record?!
    I enjoy your posts and learn so much from you and your readers.

  221. I haven’t read the other comments and I’m late to the party, but I had to say:

    1) THIS, this whole process your sharing with us – I love your design brain!! THIS RIGHT HERE is why your final product is always so amazing, and – I hate to say it because of the emotional fallout and impact it had on you – THIS is why your Olivebridge clients wanted to keep you around. You showed us a really gorgeous kitchen, and then in the second go-round you showed us an EVEN MORE AMAZING kitchen.

    Yes to everything, even the hassle of walking further to the fridge – if that’s where I will be making tea anyway it won’t be a hassle getting the milk. This kitchen is for me, yes?

    2) I feel about your tiny sink the say I feel about double vanities – people bitch about them and they’re unnecessary, but they’re unnecessary in the way dishwashers are ‘unnecessary.’ In that they’re really fucking handy when you have one. (I don’t have a double vanity but as I’m in a relationship I certainly wouldn’t complain about the trend for them.)

    (Oh, but what about Option B but with the sink in the middle of both windows for the reason you stated? Symmetry and no water marks. Like I said, haven’t read the comments so sorry if that’s the 100th iteration of that idea.)

  222. Actually scratch that – I reckon that tiny sink is way handier and more necessary than one might initially think Do it!

  223. Way late to this post but….

    I like the stove in the original plan, between the windows. That way if you do need a vent hood down the line you’re on an exterior wall (or you could get a boughie stove with a retractable vent!).

    Butler’s pantry. My friend has an awesome butler’s panty the was the original (very tiny) kitchen to her house. Basically it’s a bar now–old glass cabinets filled with pretty stemware, a small sink, fridge. It’s one of my favorite rooms in her house and she’s got a GREAT house. FYI, one thing her husband has mentioned on a couple of occasions is how much they use an under-the-counter ice maker they added. Not sure if you drink/party like my friends but it is pretty sweet!

  224. Soooo late, but I read through all the comments and only saw one sort-of reference to my question about the scullery. Did you consider moving the broom closet to the left of the fridge? That wall would be symmetric if you did. Also, what about making the wall/cabinet thing to the right of the broom closet closed storage/cabs? I was thinking that might make a nice “appliance garage” space – toaster, Kitchenaid mixer, etc (assuming the coffeemaker stays out) – or just more pantry storage to allow you to use the under counter space for the gardening supplies you’ll need to live out the Martha fantasies. :) It would mean you couldn’t have quite the length of shelves.
    Although…if you leave the broom closet where it is, maybe you can just have narrow shelves behind that wall that you can only reach through the broom closet. In that case, it would likely only be seasonal storage, since it’d be relatively hard to get to. I just hate wasted space!

  225. The revised plans look so much better. Perk of having so many people looking at your plans, someone will always catch the small details. I like how you do not have the sink placed under the window, the only reason for this, in my opinion, is to look at a view while you do dishes. Although you don’t love the view and said that you dish wash nearly everything, no need if you ask me! The only thing that I find slightly off-putting about the new plans is the table. I agree that the original was too large for the space, but a table doesn’t provide necessary storage. Have you thought of doing a smaller island wrapped in wood? It would add a similar home decor feel, while providing storage.

  226. Kitchen: A.
    Mud Room/Butler Pantry: B.
    Shaker Pegs: Yes!

  227. Just move the main sink between the windows and you’re done! Perfect layout.

  228. Tiny bar sink is awesome, you definitely need it, especially if you are coming in from outside there, you can wash your hands before wandering through the rest of the house after gardening, picking up after dogs, taking out trash, etc.

    In your lower cabinets in the rest of the kitchen, have you considered making (at least some of) them large drawers? They are so great, you can find things so much easier and fit way more stuff in. I have had them as drawer fronts, or as cabinet doors with drawers behind. You can have way more combinations of sizes of drawer across the kitchen if you do it with the cabinet doors, you just have to balance the size of the drawer with the size and weight of the stuff you are putting in them, and make sure you get the more expensive drawer slides to carry the weight.

    Also, there are a lot of great antique kitchen islands out there, some with the great big compartment built in for flour etc. One of those would look fabulous and totally fit in!

  229. Hi Daniel,
    My opinions on your kitchen plans:
    1) I love the butler’s pantry as is–really the best part of your kitchen.
    2) I would put the sink between the windows and put some art work above sink. (my sink has windows 6 inches from countertop and hardly any splashes–you won’t be putting the Mona Lisa above it.)
    3) Love the table versus the island. I have carpenter-made table with cooktop in it with downdraft for venting in middle of the kitchen–works well. Oven and microwave set in wall where your stove would be in the second layout along with cabinets on that wall. Height balances fireplace/stove. I work in my kitchen preparing all 3 meals and baking–it is very functional.
    4) I would lose the beadboard/backsplash at mid height around room, and I would also not have ledges/shelves for little knicknacks–but that is just me. I am more minimalist. I would think of maybe a rough plaster on walls to make it look consistent with age of house.

    Thank you for your wonderful posts. I have learned so much from you. I know you will have a marvelous kitchen.

  230. Do the butler pantry sink. You won’t regret it. I’ve seen old butler pantries with tiny sinks usually made of copper and they look amazing even after 100 yrs. Add a small door under or to the left of the sink so you can store booze. Open shelving make sure it has a groove for plates. Have another set of cabinets above the upper cabinets so the cabinets go all the way to the ceiling. You can put large serving dishes in these and have the fronts glass so it resembles a china display pantry. One last thing: In the kitchen on the wall with the two windows….use subway tile and make it go from the counter ALL THE WAY to the top of the ceiling and around the windows. Would look incredible on this wall, very old school Downton Abbey. Good luck!

  231. PS: Check out Boos blocks instead of an antique table. With the Boos block table you can actually use the surface as a work space without fear of cutting up the table. Many styles and many come with wheels that lock so you can move it around as needed.

  232. OMG, so many comments!!!
    I love plan B but I’m still digging Plan A layout for sink/stove. Either way, beautiful job. I envy your sketch up skills.

  233. Okay, I’m not reading all 400+ comments. I just don’t have that kind of time. And I’m reading this at work, when I should be grading tests, so maybe I just might as a way of avoiding an unpleasant task.

    My life aside, onto my opinions (cause you know you’ve been waiting for them)…

    I love Plan A sink placement sooo much better than the Plan B sink placement, So I hereby grant you permission to put your main sink any where you damn well please. Cause you were waiting for that, I know.

    I adore, and I mean ADORE. your butler’s pantry. You need the sink for all the vegetables your will be growing and washing without dragging all the dirt into that beautiful kitchen. I am so envious of the idea of a pantry, and the idea of a broom closet. I don’t have one in my reno and it makes me just a little bit cranky. I have to hide the vacuum in a dark corner and it’s just not pretty. Very smart, but you knew that.

    Unless your range hood is vented outside, they suck, and by that, I mean they actually don’t suck but recirculate and do very little for you.

    And lastly, I like the smaller table over the island bar thing. Less cluttered, but still a wee bit rustic. It would be a great place to have people (me) sit and have tea and knosh while you are cooking them (me) a magnificent feast.

    Now, go make it happen!

  234. Love these plans, especially the tiny bar sink, which you absolutely need. The coffee station idea makes so much sense.

  235. I LOVE this plan. And the best thing about it is it’s true to your house, and totally unlike everything you see on the internet/instagram. Maybe more like Jersey Ice Cream Company. I’m totally into your long bowl shelf, and I love the view of the pantry counter through the doorway. You definitely need a small, slightly decrepit chair under the bowl shelf :) I will be impatiently waiting for your kitchen to begin!

  236. I’m sorry if these have been said, I don’t have enough time to read all the comments (It’s AMAZING that you take the time. Major props!!)

    I like an option A/B hybrid. In particular I like the idea of the big wooden table. It will bring nice texture/warmth in that will be missing from the hutch moving back to the dining room. On a practical side, I’m not sure how tall you are but my mom and I are quite short and sometimes counter height gets tiresome for cooking/baking tasks and we prefer working at table height.
    I am wondering where the shelves for dishes will be? If they are on the wall opposite the fireplace then I DEF vote option A placement for stove etc because your plates and everything can go right back on the shelves (I know it’s only a few steps but having lived with both situations it really cuts down on unloading time). If this isn’t a concern then I agree with putting the sink between the windows, it solves the water spots on the windows and leaning for flower box issues.

    YOUR PANTRY/SCULLERY IS EVERYTHING.

  237. I love this. I think it’s awesome and I don’t even dare to read the comments to read anything that might change my mind. It seems to suit the age of the house and your needs beautifully. I can’t wait to see it!!

    (Can you help me virtually design my own kitchen/dining space? Are you thinking of doing that…adding e-design work to your resume?)

  238. Yes, tiny sink for the win! This post was the best. I love reading your adventures. I did think of another potential benefit of the oven placement in Option B, you could easily peer into the dining room to chat to guests if you still had cooking to do.. did I get your floor plan right? I’m pretty sure that’s the right door. Either way, your kitchen will be awesome. The updated plan is great.

  239. I love the tiny bar sink! For all the reasons you mentioned. Particularly for its usefulness in relation to your coffee maker (Such a great idea to hide the appliances in the pantry!). Haters gonna hate. If you love the sink, I say go for it!

  240. Love the second sink. Have you considered having the fridge door swing the other way: easier ice-cube putting in; easier to cart groceries to the fridge.

  241. Bravo, you worked this out wonderfully!! The butler pantry vibe is perfect. I would probably make the little pantry into a miniature murphy bed and just live in the pantry <3
    Excited to watch it all come together.

  242. I fully approve and endorse your kitchen plans, and may or may not have stolen a few ides for my Queen Anne (proper credit will be given if I ever start a blog – Gay Gardens or Dirty Old Queen?) Two things:

    1. Run that line for an eventual icemaker. You never know when your current fridge will give up the ghost, nor what scratch-and-dent-sale goodies await – an ice maker and built-in Soda Stream are life-changing.
    2. As a Pacific Northwest coffee snob and former barista, make some room by the coffee maker for a conical burr grinder. It, too, is life-changing. You don’t need some hipster nonsense that looks like a chemistry set to brew a damn fine cup of coffee, but fresh beans and the perfect grind are must.

    • Dirty Old Queen! Then you run the “risk” of being like Daniel and blogging about a place that no longer matches your blog name. :)

  243. Hey. Longtime reader, first-time commenter. I love the updated kitchen plan, it feels much better. Before I couldn’t quite follow but this one fits. The butler’s pantry is a huge improvement and you MUST get that second sink. Your excitement on that detail is awesome and a great example of why I enjoy reading your blog. I’m not sure about keeping the coffee maker in there, but I would have one installed at my kitchen island and at my desk if I could. Cheers!

  244. I am so here for that tiny bar sink, tiny bar sink forever. Also, in your previous post I thought the fridge in the pantry was weird but now I’m really, really into it. Also: your house, your dreams!

  245. OH MY GOD YOU ARE A CRUEL TEASE!!! POST PHOTOS OF THE HOUSE ALREADY!!! Sorry. My patience is exhausted.

  246. I’ve read for years but I’m finally commenting because I love the bar sink so much. The whole butler pantry (fridge included!) is gorgeous and I can’t wait to see how it turns out.

  247. I love the layout of Plan A better with the more counter space on either side of the oven/stove. Love that you got rid of the corner cabinet. Love the bar sink in the now bigger pantry that makes more sense.

    Winners all around. Only thing I would suggest is adding seating on one side of whatever island you choose. Being that your house is very compartmentalized having that space for someone to hang out with you while you cook (or vice versa ;)….) or for you to sit while something is on the stove/ or you can flip thorugh glorious recipe books that you keep in your glorious butlers pantry with sink (ha!) is a need for sure. Hutch will look better elsewhere where you can stare at it all day.

    J

  248. My aunt’s home has a corner sink in the kitchen and it is wonderful to wash dishes there. Do a quick Houzz search for “corner kitchen sink” and it looks good with apron front sink and it still looks fine with one window. It keeps you closer to Option A and if you bring the dishwasher just to the right of the sink your life will be easier.

  249. Ugh, I am so with you on the recessed lights. My husband loves them and wants to cover our house in them. I think they are the textured ceilings of this generation (which we also have, wahhh).

  250. I love love love tiny bar sink. Fridge placements everything about this now. So good.

  251. I’m SURE someone else in the comments stated this, but I just gotta say it: YOU COULD MAKE FLOWER ARRANGEMENTS BY THAT LITTLE SINK! My dream :D

  252. I wish I could use hand clap emojis. Tiny sink, yes. Hidden fridge, yes. I love your plans for the butler pantry (and the rest of the space). This is my dream kitchen. Currently looking to buy a Victorian in upstate NY and I can feel my husband’s eyes roll every time I say the words “Looks like this used to be the butler’s pantry, maybe we can put one back in.”

  253. I didn’t read a single comment so this has likely been said but I freaking LOVE the fridge hidden away. You’ll probably blow up the internet when you publish the finished blog post on this kitchen.

  254. Love the new plans. That pantry looks amazing and I’m kind of loving the idea of having a fridge tucked away. I would probably prefer a sink under the window instead of an oven, but I’d also rather clean up splashed water than splashed grease off the window panes. Either way, you know yourself better than tons of strangers on the internet so whatever you pick will be perfect. I can’t wait to see how this turns out.

  255. Daniel, I love your kitchen and pantry plans. It feels like it fits your house very well. I applaud you for not caving to all the modern ways of doing things. I love that the fridge is in the adjoining butler’s pantry and not in the kitchen itself. I also like Option A with the stove on the outside wall, and no vent hood. I love that you don’t have any upper cabinets. The room feels great for the house, and space and you. Do what feels right for you!

  256. P.S. to my last comment. You have me dreaming of having my fridge and freezer tucked away and out of site in a pantry. And the pantry counter top is perfect for loading or unloading the fridge with groceries and leftovers. [all the heart eyes]

  257. Hey, Daniel, there may be some insp in this Jersey Ice Cream Co. kitchen on Remodelista:

    https://www.remodelista.com/posts/beth-kirby-of-local-milk-kitchen-remodel-by-the-jersey-ice-cream-co/

  258. I LOVE TINY BAR SINK. I also love hidden refrigerator. I hate refrigerators. They are ugly as sin. Hide that sucker. Unless you spend 2k for one of those fancy European ones which… SURE if you want to spend that much on the fridge. So yes, I love it. Will it maybe be a pain the ass to carry all your crap into the actual kitchen? Sure, but easily solved with some dainty little basket contraption and you can pretend that you’re foraging or something.
    Have you thought about a bigger sink? or centering it between the windows? I’m sure you have, but maybe there’s something to be gained there. In our house, I do lean over my sink to get to the window and it isn’t a big deal and I don’t feel awkward doing it. Yes, the back lip on my sink has also become the land where plants live, but I kind of like it that way.
    Also, wheels on your island. I had that once, before we moved and renovated and there was no room for my giant beautiful rolling island. But the rolling was amazing for shifting it as you needed/parties/etc.

  259. I am really enjoying following your kitchen planning. Have you considered taking the cabinets on the fridge wall to the ceiling? Or to the level of the transom? If you go to the ceiling you could add one of those cool butler pantry ladders. Will you be adding cabinets below your queenly second sink? I love the look of this trend to go upper kitchen wall naked….but as someone who cooks a lot and amasses kitchen gadgets at an alarming rate, despair over the loss of cabinet space.

  260. Hiya. Saw these pictures of a “Classic English Kitchen”, thought of you! :)
    http://www.devolkitchens.co.uk/kitchens/classic-bespoke-kitchen/guildford-dairy-kitchen

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